2014/15 Line Up projections

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Strangelove
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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Strangelove » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:36 pm

Betamax wrote: GMJB stated that he wanted the Canucks' to be a "four line team"
THANK YOU!

I had not heard that and as it stands right now it sure as hell looks like a "four line team" on paper.
Betamax wrote: But even if Sestito averages 6:27 MPG like he did last season, they could double shift a winger(s) that "is playing well" during the game to take Sestito's spot on the line when he's in the box for 5Min (to try to justify his role on the team) or just being a bench warmer. 8-)
I hear what you're saying, I do.

I just think a team that wants to roll 4 lines all season is a team that prefers 13 forwards capable of 10+ mins.

And yeah we have Dorsett now bro. :mex:
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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Strangelove » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:42 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Strangelove wrote:He... might... be the 13th forward who replaces injured/benched forwards.
No. Not as an extra forward. I'm fine keeping him in a 3rd/4th line role, provided he plays real minutes consistently. Maybe sprinkle in some special teams time here or there (PK?). He seems to have the positional awareness to not be a liability. But 6mins/game is not going to cut it, and 13th forward needlessly wastes a year of his ELC and doesn't get him nearly enough experience.

....

He can either play, or not.
Agreed that if it's "6mins/game" he should rather be returned to junior.

In fact, that's pretty much... exactly... what I said! :crazy:

Perhaps I shouldn't have said "13th forward".

But clearly I qualified that with IF Horvat makes the cut and IF the 4th line is going to play 10+ minutes.

Yeah, then I talked about 40-ish games bro....

You know IN, it's possible he makes the team but is rotated in and out of the lineup.

He could play lights-out for a while and then fall into a bit of a slump during the long season.

If he makes the team and plays the first 10 games of the season are you guaranteeing he plays all 82?

Do you see the picture I'm painting?

BTW I hear a lot of people saying "avoid burning a year of his ELC".

Personally I think that in the overall scheme of things (ELC, Bridge, Big contract) it's a silly thing to worry about.

But I really don't want to get into that (lengthy) discussion at the moment.

I just want to know how many minutes folks think the 4th line will play (barring major trades).

You don't... really... think it will merely be "6mins/game" do you? :hmmm:
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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Strangelove » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:46 pm

Mondi wrote: Does anyone think this team can win relying on guys like Higgins, Richardson, and Matthias to take a regular shift?
Ummm wot... DA FOCK... are you talking about?

All of those players have been "taking a regular shift" forever! :scowl:
Mondi wrote: Even a top line of Sedin, Sedin, and Vrbata is not really a top line any more.
Actually that is the projected top line of your Vancouver Canucks.

The question is not "Are they a top line?"

The question is "How good of a top line are they at this point?"

I'd say that, barring injury, and, given the likelihood of a bounce-back of sorts, they're an average NHL 1st line.
Mondi wrote: Especially with a second line of Burrows, Bonino, and Kassian. Not exactly gang busters.
The potential is there for this to be a decent 2nd line IF the chemistry is there.

And if the chemistry... isn't there... well then that probably won't be the 2nd line. :drink:

Given the likelihood of a Burrows bounce-back (of sorts) and more minutes for Kassian, who knows...
Mondi wrote: The team has depth at forward, but extremely limited goal scoring skill.
I'd say the bottom 6 Canuck forwards will score more goals than the average NHL bottom 6.

This likely won't be a high scoring team unless a miracle happens

(something like Kassian, Vey, and Horvat all breaking out)

... but they should win just enough games to sneak into the playoffs.
Mondi wrote: And fuck the debate over Dorrset and/or Sestito. Those are guys are a easy to acquire and only useful once the rest of the team is clicking
Yeah I don't think you have the foggiest clue as to what we have in Dorsett dude.

There is no debate.

Dorsett can "take a regular shift". :scowl:
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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Betamax » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:47 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:^^^
Oh I get that it will be a disappointment to you, and you can cry on my shoulder if it happens. But please don't try to project your personal disappointments as if they will be collectively shared by all. The biggest franchise disappointment, really?!?!?! Ok, so you have now explained how and why you will personally feel sad if he doesn't make it. For me, I don't share that sense of sadness. If he is good enough, he will make it. If he doesn't make it, it means he wasn't ready.

I don't see that as a franchise failure or the beginning of a 40 year struggle. I also don't see it meaning he is no damn good, just he isn't ready at this point in his career. Now if in ten years he still hasn't made it then I'll place him up there with the Josh Holden's of the world. But to try to turn this into something huge and franchise or player defining is a, well, little mellow dramatic. Understand?
Uhhhhhh, cc HW, that's not exactly how I would framed my personal feelings on that matter, as stated previously in an earlier post:
Betamax wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Unless Horvat really blows everyone away at camp I'm all for sending him back to junior. Richardson has one year left on his deal and he was pretty useful for us last year. I'd rather keep his experience around this year and let him walk as a FA next year, opening up a roster spot. Now I suppose if a Benning could trade him for a third or fourth round pick clearing a roster spot for a deserving Horvat ok.

Hansen has a limited NTC so he is moveable too so I could see that working as well.
If Horvat isn't considered good enough to crack this roster ... it would be one of the biggest disappointments/stories this Training Camp.

I'm thinking he'll be given every chance to make the team. The fact that it's either the NHL or back to junior would make me think he gets to start the season with the big team unless his plays clearly shows he's not good enough to stick around. 8-)
If my boy, and other top prospect, Hunter Shinkaruk didn't have his season cut short due to his injury last season, I would be similarly disappointed if he wasn't considered good enough to crack the roster out of the pres-season. But he gets a mulligan because of that.

I mean this isn't the two time Presidents' Trophy winning edition of "your" Vancouver Canucks. They are in, "re-tool" mode, right? 8-)

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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Strangelove » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:49 pm

Groovypippin wrote:Looking at this:

Strangelove wrote:
Sedin – Sedin – Vrbata
Burrows – Bonino – Kassian
Higgins – Vey – Hansen
Matthias – Richardson/Horvat – Dorsett
Richardson/Horvat


It's clear to me that unless Bo Horvat is a complete revelation at camp this year he will NOT be making the team.
Yeah no, it wouldn't take a miracle for Horvat to take the job of a Richardson or a Hansen bro. :drink:
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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Strangelove » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:55 pm

SKYO wrote:
Strangelove wrote:Does anyone agree/disagree with me about how many minutes our 4th line will play?

I'm saying it will be more like a... 3b line if you will... than a typical 4th line.
4th line should get a few more minutes per game next season, especially if Hansen sticks around and is on the 4th.

Look for Willie to give em about 9-11 minutes per game, depending on the opponent.
Yeah there are about 11 forwards on the roster who usually play 10+ minutes.

Then there are Vey and Horvat and/or possibly some other rookie who might possibly prove to be dat dere.

(and then there is Sestito who will probably be waving buh-bye)

Yeah it's a fo-line team fo sho bro. :thumbs:
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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Strangelove » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:11 pm

If it's a 4-line team then Horvat has a much better chance of making the cut

(assuming they wouldn't wanna keep him up for 6minutes/game on a goon squad).

Amirite or amirite, or amiriterite...
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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Hockey Widow » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:23 pm

Strangelove wrote:If it's a 4-line team then Horvat has a much better chance of making the cut

(assuming they wouldn't wanna keep him up for 6minutes/game on a goon squad).

Amirite or amirite, or amiriterite...

Certainly Benning and Linden are saying

1) it will be a four line team

2) Horvat looks good and they think he has a real shot at making the cut.

There are strong reasons for wanting one or two younger players to make this team. One reason is transitional. Since we are in transition it would be easier to slide 1-2 players a year into the line up rather than 4-5-6 all in one year. If Horvat sticks along with others from Utica getting call ups then next year we won't be talking about all these rookies. Experience, graduated experience is a wonderful thing.
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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Island Nucklehead » Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:46 am

Hockey Widow wrote: There are strong reasons for wanting one or two younger players to make this team. One reason is transitional. Since we are in transition it would be easier to slide 1-2 players a year into the line up rather than 4-5-6 all in one year. If Horvat sticks along with others from Utica getting call ups then next year we won't be talking about all these rookies. Experience, graduated experience is a wonderful thing.
More reason for Horvat NOT to stick. We HAVE depth in Utica now. Gaunce, Shinkaruk... no rush to get BoHo into the lineup.

It'd be real nice if he finds a role, but lets be honest with ourselves... he's gonna have to play mighty well to get a spot, and even then we have guys in the minors for free...

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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Boston Canucker » Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:08 am

Provided he looks like he is competitive for a starting job, I can see them giving them the 9 game stint to see if he can play with the big boys this year. If not, it's no big deal, as there's no need to rush anyone. The Kings have had some of their best players do 2-3 years in Manchester. If he's ready to go, let the colt run, if not, back to the junior circuit to keep working.

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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Betamax » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:56 am

I posted this tweet a while back on this board:

via: https://twitter.com/botchford/status/476752100341211136
Jason Botchford @botchford
@GoFour3 delorme stays and horvat's upside is seen as a 2L C and he will make the team this fall, unless he comes to camp 70 lbs overweight

8:45 AM - 11 Jun 2014
That was before they acquired Vey who is a virtual lock to make the roster.

Still, I do believe Bo will remain on the roster on opening night unless he is completely outplayed during the preseason by the incumbents and/or the other prospects like Shinkaruk or Gaunce. Now, whether he plays 10+ games or sent down before that remains to be seen.

One x-factor that Bo potentially brings is that he is versatile and can play the wing ...... 8-)

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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Canuck-One » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:36 am

An awful lot of print used on Horvat. Whether he makes it or not will be up to his level of play. The line up is "ALWAYS" going to have new and younger blood until the reality of having to win now sets in. The forward line up will be set as;

Sedin - Sedin - Vrbata
Burrows - Bonino - Kassian
Higgins - Vey - Hansen
Matthias - Richardson - Dorset
Sestito
Call ups from Utica when needed

On the D;

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Tanev
Sbisa - Stanton
Weber

In Goal;
Miller
Lack

Our rookie is Vey the Canadian Junior scoring champion of 2010/11.

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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Strangelove » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:54 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
Strangelove wrote:If it's a 4-line team then Horvat has a much better chance of making the cut

(assuming they wouldn't wanna keep him up for 6minutes/game on a goon squad).

Amirite or amirite, or amiriterite...

Certainly Benning and Linden are saying

1) it will be a four line team

2) Horvat looks good and they think he has a real shot at making the cut.

There are strong reasons for wanting one or two younger players to make this team. One reason is transitional. Since we are in transition it would be easier to slide 1-2 players a year into the line up rather than 4-5-6 all in one year. If Horvat sticks along with others from Utica getting call ups then next year we won't be talking about all these rookies. Experience, graduated experience is a wonderful thing.
If Vey and Horvat make the jump

.... and the team truly rolls 4 lines

.... and Kassian breaks out (as I expect he will)

.... and we have Shinkaruk, Jensen, Gaunce, and Fox available as callups

.... well it might get real exciting watching these kids play this season.

Sneaking into the playoffs would be the icing on the cake. :thumbs:
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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Betamax » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:00 pm

Canuck-One wrote:An awful lot of print used on Horvat. Whether he makes it or not will be up to his level of play. The line up is "ALWAYS" going to have new and younger blood until the reality of having to win now sets in. The forward line up will be set as;

Sedin - Sedin - Vrbata
Burrows - Bonino - Kassian
Higgins - Vey - Hansen
Matthias - Richardson - Dorset
Sestito
Call ups from Utica when needed

On the D;

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Tanev
Sbisa - Stanton
Weber

In Goal;
Miller
Lack

Our rookie is Vey the Canadian Junior scoring champion of 2010/11.
Uhhhhh, the roster you listed has 22 players. An NHL team can have up to 23 if they have enough cap space. The Canucks should have more than enough cap space to have an additional forward like a Horvat, Jensen, Shinkaruk, Gaunce on the roster if they are considered good enough and everyone you listed is healthy to start the season.

Bo, as I mentioned eariler is either NHL or back to Junior, where the others can be sent down in up from the AHL to the NHL and vice versa, so if it's close between him and the other top prospects, they might give him the benefit of the doubt to start the season up here with the big team.

The main question when it comes to Bo is whether being in a pro environment and being eased into the line-up is better or being sent back to junior is better for his long term development. That is certainly debatable and that is one of the interesting story-lines to follow this training camp/pre-season. 8-)

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Re: 2014/15 Line Up projections

Post by Canuck-One » Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:40 pm

If I had to add another forward right now it would be Jensen. He has shown that with a creative centre he can score. Or as HW alluded to they might carry 8 D. That may mean Corrado. Forward or D it doesn't matter it won't be a first year pro. They want to make the playoffs.

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