CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

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Rayxor
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Rayxor »

herb wrote:The exciting thing about this rebuild or retool is that we're already four decent drafts in, IMO.

2011 - Jensen, Grenier, Corrado
2012 - Gaunce, Hutton
2013 - Horvat, Shinkaruk, Cassels
2014- Virtanen, McCann, Demko
With all due respect, you are counting your chickens a bit early.

I agree that the prospect pool for forwards hasn't looked this good in 15 years when we had just drafted the Sedins and already had Holden, Cooke Chubarov, Kariya, Ruuttu, Druken and Schaefer competing for roster spots.

We can't be sure how good a draft is until years later when we find out who reaches/surpasses their potential and who is an AHL journeyman or DEL allstar.

We hope from that group, plus Fox and Vey, that there are more gems than flakes.
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Strangelove
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Strangelove »

Uncle dans leg wrote: Can't say I remember the doconator ever lashing out like this! There's a nerve in there somewhere that I obviously touched! :mrgreen:
Yeah I admit it, stupidity sets me off sometimes.

Congrats buddy, you are truly the perfect captain for the Rubber Diaper Gang! :thumbs:

Even the worst Canuck-haters at HF don't dare call Miller "a crappy goaltender" who "completely sucks!

Yeah, I don't run into this kind of stupidity very often, plus twas in MY thread.

So yeah I may have overreacted but I'm fine now good buddy. :drink:
Uncle dans leg wrote: So how's the acquisition of Ryan Miller gonna add to the teams goals for again? Better?
A top goaltender who's actually happy to be here will settle the troops down and inspire confidence.
Uncle dans leg wrote: Vrbata is a decent addition but all the before mentioned changes might, if at all, offset the loss in production of 1 cryin' Ryan. If at all dude.
:roll:
Uncle dans leg wrote: I would think the teams best hopes would lie in the defense returning to the top of the league offensively. Much more plausible IMESHO.
Thought I mentioned that in the "return to a transition game" section. :eh:

But hey nice to see you answering your own rhetorical question. :thumbs:
Uncle dans leg wrote: Another legitimate top line player addition (or 3) would also be essential to even considering this team anything more than first round cannon fodder.
Pretty sure I mentioned that possibility as well.

Well I didn't say 3.

Yeah Dan Canucks need 3 more #1-line players. :roll:
Uncle dans leg wrote: So middling another season away and drafting 14-18th serves no purpose unless you consider competing and failing yet again but trying hard to be a moral victory. I personally do not.
You don't think that it's morally right for a fan-supported professional sports team to try to compete? :?
Uncle dans leg wrote: And doc...we could be friends if you just accept that other don't agree with you :roll:
Dan, I disagree with my friends all the time.

My friends are all super intelligent and steeped in morals you see. :mrgreen:
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GO CANUCKS GO!!!
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herb
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by herb »

Rayxor wrote:With all due respect, you are counting your chickens a bit early.
Saying we have a group of decent prospect with flue blue chippers is counting my chickens too early...alrighty then.

No shit we don't know for sure how good a draft class is until 5 or even 10 years down the road. What we can do is continuously evaluate the progress of said prospects, and so far we have quite a few who are progressing well through the CHL and AHL.
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by SKYO »

After a shitty season with injured players, a horrendous coach from hell, players wanting out Kesler (who knows what he did, but he lost respect from some teammates apparently), Luongos dark cloud, we were still only 9 points from a playoff spot haha.

Making the playoffs will be priority #1, we got a younger crew with a lot to prove, an new management team, coaching, I foresee another move or two by September, with rose coloured glasses on I'd say we should have a solid season in 2014/15, not cup champs but we'd gain invaluable learning experience from the playoffs especially for the younger fellas.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by The Brown Wizard »

dbr wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:So middling another season away and drafting 14-18th serves no purpose unless you consider competing and failing yet again but trying hard to be a moral victory. I personally do not.
"Another middling season" is the bare minimum requirement for our ownership, might as well get good and comfy with it because we'll never ever EVER have an offseason where they OK a plan that involves a worse on-ice product the following year (unless, I guess, we are at the top of the league).

As for drafting 14th-18th, I guess you must be pretty impressed with Benning's moves! Jumping 8-12 spots in the league standings would be a pretty decent turnaround for an aging squad that dealt their second best forward and a very serviceable defenseman, replacing them with unproven kids and a goalie who "totally and completely sucks."

Or I guess maybe, those numbers are just rhetorically convenient for you in the here and now. :look:

The fact is, we are going to get a half-measure rebuild. Just like a person who buys a house that needs a lot of work isn't going to tear it down to the ground and live in the garage for three years, we are going to see this roster turned over little by little. First the guys who wanted out and were causing headaches, then the guys who do not fit the vision of management, then the rest of the older guys will likely go in free agency or retire as the younger players break into the league. It'll take time but ultimately it's better than bottoming out on purpose IMO.

Look at teams like Boston (picked in the top ten twice) and Los Angeles (three top ten picks) and St. Louis (two top ten picks) as examples of franchises that did not pursue the Edmonton Oilers/league laughingstock model of success. We've got two already and might well end up with a third with bad enough luck this year, but with the draft shaping up like the 2003 class even a mid-teens pick could prove to be a cornerstone player.

Ultimately when you look at teams that succeed they are the ones that draft well (wherever they pick), make shrewd trades, manage their cap well and so on. Yes many of them pick up top end players high in the draft but there are really only two that loaded up that way and the best example of all of tanking and twice-in-a-lifetime draft luck are proving now that with mediocre management even two of the best players in the world in their primes can't drag a team deep into the playoffs.
Excellent post dude
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Diehard1 »

herb wrote:
Rayxor wrote:With all due respect, you are counting your chickens a bit early.
Saying we have a group of decent prospect with flue blue chippers is counting my chickens too early...alrighty then.

No shit we don't know for sure how good a draft class is until 5 or even 10 years down the road. What we can do is continuously evaluate the progress of said prospects, and so far we have quite a few who are progressing well through the CHL and AHL.
I think this is a good way to look at it too - regardless of what the pundits say the Nucks have a very good pool of prospects up front and in net. The D needs some work but it's probably the strongest point of the big club so there's some time to work with.

I'm not really sure why anybody listens to garbage publications like The Hockey News or Hockey's Future when it comes to prospect rankings anyway. They haven't ranked teams properly in the 15 years I've been reading them, and I have all the back issues of the Hockey News to prove it. They are fun to read but not gospel like some posters and media seem to think.

For me, this is a much better pool than when guys like Steve Kariya were around - he was never a top prospect so is a weird one to choose, but I get the point. This group of forwards shows lots of promise as is easily a top 10 group of prospects overall. To accomplish this while still trying to win on the big team is the hardest thing for a manager to do. Benning has a decent start but still needs another solid draft or two along with another trade of a vet or two.
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by dbr »

Uncle dans leg wrote:
dbr wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:So middling another season away and drafting 14-18th serves no purpose unless you consider competing and failing yet again but trying hard to be a moral victory. I personally do not.
"Another middling season" is the bare minimum requirement for our ownership, might as well get good and comfy with it because we'll never ever EVER have an offseason where they OK a plan that involves a worse on-ice product the following year (unless, I guess, we are at the top of the league).

*drone drone drone drone*

Ultimately when you look at teams that succeed they are the ones that draft well (wherever they pick), make shrewd trades, manage their cap well and so on. Yes many of them pick up top end players high in the draft but there are really only two that loaded up that way and the best example of all of tanking and twice-in-a-lifetime draft luck are proving now that with mediocre management even two of the best players in the world in their primes can't drag a team deep into the playoffs.
Excellent post dude
Thanks buddy. You're worth it! :thumbs:
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Nuckertuzzi »

You're right, you can't always rely on what you read. Kesler at best was going to be a 3rd line checking center with 20 goal potential. Burr or Tanev were never drafted and both have had times on the top line/pairings. You just never know at 18 how a kid will develop.

Hopefully there's a superstar in the making in our group of young forwards. Personally, I think the only guy that might have that potential is Shinkaruk and that's a big IF, while the others have a realistic ceiling of 2nd line players. And realistically only half of that group will hit their ceilings so that should give us 3-4 good, not great players to build around. Every team in the league has that. True Cup contenders have difference makers. If we can get that from a miracle trade or picking in the mid to high teens, then great.
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Rayxor
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Rayxor »

herb wrote:
Rayxor wrote:With all due respect, you are counting your chickens a bit early.
Saying we have a group of decent prospect with flue blue chippers is counting my chickens too early...alrighty then.

No shit we don't know for sure how good a draft class is until 5 or even 10 years down the road. What we can do is continuously evaluate the progress of said prospects, and so far we have quite a few who are progressing well through the CHL and AHL.
Seems I rubbed you the wrong way, and in all honesty, I wasn't trying to rub you at all. I admit that I get a bit nervous seeing too much enthusiasm for our prospects, particularly ones that have not yet got to the minors. Being a long time Canucks fan, I'm sure I don't have to explain this any further.

Also, we have to remember there are kids reading this forum, and it is our responsibility to teach them how to become proper fans. They need to know that it is best to temper their excitement and enter a state of guarded optimism, if even that is justified.

I agree, this group does look good on paper, and it is much better than what we have seen in several years. 5 first rounders in 3 years is a good start to building from within the system. Going by statistical probability alone, we could expect 3 of the 6 first rounders on your list to become NHL regulars. Good old Canuck luck should still leave us with 1 or 2 of the 6 and maybe one guy with enough upside that we can trade him for something useful.
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Nuckertuzzi wrote:Hopefully there's a superstar in the making in our group of young forwards. Personally, I think the only guy that might have that potential is Shinkaruk and that's a big IF, while the others have a realistic ceiling of 2nd line players. And realistically only half of that group will hit their ceilings so that should give us 3-4 good, not great players to build around. Every team in the league has that. True Cup contenders have difference makers. If we can get that from a miracle trade or picking in the mid to high teens, then great.
I guess the comforting factor is that neither the LA Kings nor the Boston Bruins have a traditional "superstar" forward.

As far as "difference makers" go, there's no reason several of our prospects couldn't turn out to be core players on a successful team.
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Nuckertuzzi »

Island Nucklehead wrote:I guess the comforting factor is that neither the LA Kings nor the Boston Bruins have a traditional "superstar" forward.

As far as "difference makers" go, there's no reason several of our prospects couldn't turn out to be core players on a successful team.
Maybe, let's hope.

Btw, I think Kopitar is close to suparstar forward if he isn't there already. And the difference is they have superstars in other key positions. As far as I know there are no superstar/difference-makers on the horizon for us...but that can change, let's hope.
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by dbr »

Yeah but you don't need a top five pick to get a Kopitar.

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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by herb »

Rayxor wrote:Seems I rubbed you the wrong way, and in all honesty, I wasn't trying to rub you at all. I admit that I get a bit nervous seeing too much enthusiasm for our prospects, particularly ones that have not yet got to the minors. Being a long time Canucks fan, I'm sure I don't have to explain this any further.

Also, we have to remember there are kids reading this forum, and it is our responsibility to teach them how to become proper fans. They need to know that it is best to temper their excitement and enter a state of guarded optimism, if even that is justified.

I agree, this group does look good on paper, and it is much better than what we have seen in several years. 5 first rounders in 3 years is a good start to building from within the system. Going by statistical probability alone, we could expect 3 of the 6 first rounders on your list to become NHL regulars. Good old Canuck luck should still leave us with 1 or 2 of the 6 and maybe one guy with enough upside that we can trade him for something useful.
I guess your avatar just pissed me off.

All I hear from the Negative Nancy woe-is-us casual Canucks fan is how screwed we are. We're not. A couple of years ago the cupboards were bare, as they say. Now, we probably have an average crop of prospects. If Benning is anywhere near as good at drafting as we have been led to believe, things should be on the upswing in that regard.

Take care..........................................................
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Nuckertuzzi »

dbr wrote:Yeah but you don't need a top five pick to get a Kopitar.

This organization does.
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by herb »

Nuckertuzzi wrote:
dbr wrote:Yeah but you don't need a top five pick to get a Kopitar.

This organization does.
Woooooooooooshhhhh...
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