CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

[The Brown Wizard]

Doc and DBM...

If the roster today was what we dressed come October...who the hell will score the goals?

There's nobody on the roster now that can or will score anything close to what's needed to even squeek into the playoffs...let alone manage to do anything whatsoever against one of the top 3 conference opponents we would match up against if we land spots 6,7 or 8...

Why not fail with a purpose for one more year, draft high in the golden draft year THEN start adding pieces after the draft with a blue chipper stowed safely in the from breast pocket of Bennings purple crushed velvet blazer? Why dammit?!?!

Doc man, I understand that the vitamin D deficiency you coasties suffer from due to the 11 month per year cloud blanket has turned y'all bitter and envious of the big blue skies we enjoy over here but getting all personal and nasty isn't that becoming of man of your standing in the canuckSCORNER community...

Let's be friends again shall we? I can appreciate your unwavering canuck loyalty and you can appreciate my logical analysis

[mathonwy]

We are not that far from contending. Wrong coach killed us. We added muscle, good draft and a goalie. One more scorer and anything can happen.

This is what you call delusional but I like the cut of your jib so I won't ruin it for you.

[Chef Boi RD]

We are not that far from contending. Wrong coach killed us. We added muscle, good draft and a goalie. One more scorer and anything can happen.

LOL no.

lol

[ClamRussel]

Brutal return for a player of that magnitude. Decent return by a GM who had his hands tied by a player w/ a bad attitude. The trading of Garrison also weakens our blueline...adds cap space but there's no one decent left worth spending it on. In a perfect world where Kesler is a leader & wants to play here, I'd agree with you. We might just be tanking, like it or not.

You kind of contradict yourself saying it's a brutal return for kesler and then say it's decent.

Um, no I don't actually. I said it's below value return for a player of Kesler 's level ...yet under the circumstances, we all know all too well, it's hard to expect Benning to get much more. In other words, Kesler screwed the team out of fair value. Perhaps I could have worded that better.

[ClamRussel]

You just don't go into a season with two rookie goaltenders, especially with the way Lack looked down the stretch. He was tired and beat down and was played to death, but those are very real things that happen to NHL players.

Actually no, 19 straight starts is not normal. Sheesh.

Markstrom looked terrible in the three games he played.

Bullshit. He looked terrible in his first game, good in his second and better yet in his third. Do you think he may have been a tad rusty at that point?

As a guy who really likes Lack and Markstrom

You have an odd manner of showing it.

[Nuckertuzzi]

Sure. But you don't need a 1st Overall pick to guarantee yourself success. We have significant assets that are projected to be NHL players that are developing. Core players from our recent "elite status" days like Kesler, Edler, Bieksa, Burrows etc were not drafted high. It's not out of the realm of possibility that several of the kids we currently have become franchise players.

No you don't need 1st, 2nd overalls to guarantee success if you draft well and you pointed out some good examples that I am fully aware of. We did an ok job with the group you highlighted there that "almost" won us the Cup, but let's not leave out the important fact that that group was lead by two blue chip (2nd and 3rd overall) picks. And I'm talking about a Cup, not just an elite level team like the one we had.."almost" isn't quite winning it.

Again though you are correct that you don't need super high picks if you draft and develop well, and know how to find the hidden gems out there. But that's an extremely hopeful process, a process this franchise has historically demonstrated incompetence in. Picking high is your best chance at landing those gems.

Take the Kings for example. The only player currently on their roster that was a top-5 pick (by the Kings) was Drew Doughty.

True but do they win either of their two Cups without Doughty? I think not. They'd still be a good team, probably one of those perpetually close but not quite there, like the Canucks and Sharks. Not ironically one of the biggest reasons cited for the failure of those two teams is their lack of a stud defenseman..like a Doughty. They clearly missed something.

...

Look you do make some good points and ultimately I'm not saying we need to tank it. I honestly don't know if that's the way to go because you are correct that there are no guarantees. I just know a couple of things:

The recent moves we made will NOT make us a champion or gets us closer.

The other thing is fact remains we still haven't won a Cup in 46 years, and you wonder if having that one extra impact player, those difference makers that usually come from the top 5 would've done it for us on the few teams we had that were right on the cusp. 46 years without a Cup and few truly great players in that time is no coincidence..they go hand in hand (geez we don't even have one thousand point player in half a century..pathetic!).

I firmly believe we need to get a true impact, generational-type player if we want to end that drought. I'd hate to build a "good" team with the crop of decent prospects we have now only to get close but fail again because we just missed that one big piece. Maybe Linden/Benning is the management team that knows how to find those missing pieces without needing to get into top 5 territory. I hope and pray.

[sagebrush]

Am OK with the Miller signing. Not my preference, but can understand it.

We need leadership, & Miller will instill confidence - if Miller can keep his cool in the rough times. Lets see how Miller reacts the next time Edler has a brain fart that results in a break way goal on Miller.

[HockeyGeek]

LOL no.

I honestly think we're 50/50 for making the playoffs. Obviously a few of our players would need bounce-back seasons but I think that's well within the realm of possibilities.

[Per]

We are not that far from contending. Wrong coach killed us. We added muscle, good draft and a goalie. One more scorer and anything can happen.

And his name is Vrbata!

[Strangelove]

Doc and DBM...

If the roster today was what we dressed come October...who the hell will score the goals?

I told you and told you and told you that the Canucks would use their cap space to to add a goal scorer.

Enter Vrbata.

More goals.

Prior to last season's fiasco, Daniel and Burrows were the highest goal-scorers over the previous 5 years.

Both averaging over 30 goals each over 82 games.

That's over 60 goals total between them on average.

Last season they had 21 goals between them.

Think Dan, THINK.

How many goals are they likely to score next season?

60?

No, they're slowing down.

21?

No everything that could go wrong last season went wrong.

So somewhere in between then.

Well that equates to more goals.

Whoever earns the icetime between Kassian/Jensen/Bonino/Vey/Horvat... will add goals.

With proper coaching, a better PP will bring more goals.

Right now I like the idea of....

Sedin-Sedin-Bonino
Vrbata-Edler

Bonino and Vrbata are excellent PP guys.

There is also the possibility at this point of YET ANOTHER TRADE increasing the goal-scoring.

More goals.

With players like Burrows and Higgins being forced down to the 3rd line, said line will score more goals.

And if we are hit by injuries again, this time we have top prospects on the farm to replace them with.

More goals.

Getting back to a transition game, given the skills of our defencemen equals

... more goals.

Is that enough goals to satisfy you Dan?

IS IT??!!

Why not fail with a purpose for one more year, draft high in the golden draft year THEN start adding pieces after the draft with a blue chipper stowed safely in the from breast pocket of Bennings purple crushed velvet blazer? Why dammit?!?!

Ask Edmonton, Buffalo, NYI, and Florida.

Retooling works much more often than rebuilding.

Tanking gives you a teamful of losers and a lottery pick.

Do you feel lucky.... punk.

Is there really going to be much difference in a deep draft between 8th (low as we could go?)

.... and 18th (high as we could go?).

Is it really worth throwing a season away for?

The problem here Dan is that you have a loser mentality.

That's why you're perfectly fine with losing.

I wouldn't want the players to catch your disease.

And... WAKE UP... Willie and management will not let that happen.

Do you seriously think otherwise?

Let's be friends again shall we?

LOL, no offense dude but fuck that shit.

Now can we please get back to talking about RYAN MILLER in the RYAN MILLER thread?

Thanks in advance!

[The Brown Wizard]

Can't say I remember the doconator ever lashing out like this! There's a nerve in there somewhere that I obviously touched!

Don't worry buddy, it only hurts at first!

So how's the acquisition of Ryan Miller gonna add to the teams goals for again? Better?

Vrbata is a decent addition but all the before mentioned changes might, if at all, offset the loss in production of 1 cryin' Ryan. If at all dude.

I would think the teams best hopes would lie in the defense returning to the top of the league offensively. Much more plausible IMESHO.

Another legitimate top line player addition (or 3) would also be essential to even considering this team anything more than first round cannon fodder.

Unfortunately for us long suffering canucks fans, the only way to acquire these assets is to move youth. The absolute worst case.

So middling another season away and drafting 14-18th serves no purpose unless you consider competing and failing yet again but trying hard to be a moral victory. I personally do not.

And doc...we could be friends if you just accept that other don't agree with you

[bckev]

To me Miller equals keeping luongo. A chance to really develop lack, puts us into to contention to win games every night. The best part of this is if Lack/Markstrom is good enough to be a starter he will replace Miller and then we have an excellent part to trade at the deadline. Our defense is solid and will get back to form under Willie. I think we will role 4 solid lines, all capable of scoring. This makes a strong playoff contender, and one you get into the playoffs who knows what can happen.

[dbr]

So middling another season away and drafting 14-18th serves no purpose unless you consider competing and failing yet again but trying hard to be a moral victory. I personally do not.

"Another middling season" is the bare minimum requirement for our ownership, might as well get good and comfy with it because we'll never ever EVER have an offseason where they OK a plan that involves a worse on-ice product the following year (unless, I guess, we are at the top of the league).

As for drafting 14th-18th, I guess you must be pretty impressed with Benning's moves! Jumping 8-12 spots in the league standings would be a pretty decent turnaround for an aging squad that dealt their second best forward and a very serviceable defenseman, replacing them with unproven kids and a goalie who "totally and completely sucks."

Or I guess maybe, those numbers are just rhetorically convenient for you in the here and now.

The fact is, we are going to get a half-measure rebuild. Just like a person who buys a house that needs a lot of work isn't going to tear it down to the ground and live in the garage for three years, we are going to see this roster turned over little by little. First the guys who wanted out and were causing headaches, then the guys who do not fit the vision of management, then the rest of the older guys will likely go in free agency or retire as the younger players break into the league. It'll take time but ultimately it's better than bottoming out on purpose IMO.

Look at teams like Boston (picked in the top ten twice) and Los Angeles (three top ten picks) and St. Louis (two top ten picks) as examples of franchises that did not pursue the Edmonton Oilers/league laughingstock model of success. We've got two already and might well end up with a third with bad enough luck this year, but with the draft shaping up like the 2003 class even a mid-teens pick could prove to be a cornerstone player.

Ultimately when you look at teams that succeed they are the ones that draft well (wherever they pick), make shrewd trades, manage their cap well and so on. Yes many of them pick up top end players high in the draft but there are really only two that loaded up that way and the best example of all of tanking and twice-in-a-lifetime draft luck are proving now that with mediocre management even two of the best players in the world in their primes can't drag a team deep into the playoffs.

[dbr]

Any by the way, please don't take this as me saying that I think Benning is going to build a Stanley Cup Champion or that I've been wowed by his moves thusfar or anything like that.

I'm pointing out that you can build a winner while trying to compete in the NHL. Take comfort from that because apart from the last ten games of a lost season (or a situation where this team is unintentionally run into the ground), I doubt we're ever going to get a different mandate than that for this franchise.

[herb]

The exciting thing about this rebuild or retool is that we're already four decent drafts in, IMO.

2011 - Jensen, Grenier, Corrado
2012 - Gaunce, Hutton
2013 - Horvat, Shinkaruk, Cassels
2014- Virtanen, McCann, Demko

There are eight decent to blue chip forward prospects in this group, a couple of decent defensemen and a blue chip goalie prospect from the last four drafts. Add in Fox, Lack, Markstrom, Eriksson and things aren't so bleak.

It wasn't too long ago we could safely say we didn't have a single blue chip prospect. Now we have three or four.

If the 2015 draft class is anywhere near as good as the pundits say, we should walk away with another blue chip prospect and two or three other good ones.

McDavid or no McDavid, building a good team is about drafting well, developing even better, having a winning atmosphere and building your roster through trades and FA signings.

Miller will help to not destroy our young goaltenders and build a competitive atmosphere that will be a positive environment for our young players to grow into top professionals.