CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

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Betamax
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Betamax » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:16 pm

Tciso wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1426152/vanco ... an-miller/

Miller’s modified no-trade clause reportedly allows him to provide the Canucks with list of only 5 teams he’ll allow for trade.
Good to know, Canucks haven't made this kind of info available much in the past. :drink:
I would have preferred 10 or 15 teams. I mean, if he wants to not be traded, he just names 5 teams with $7mil goalies, and voila, he is untradeable. Oh well. As far as NTC go, this one doesn't totally stink.
duh, if those reports are true, Miller's so called "modified no-trade clause" is effectively a FULL no trade clause if he fully desires to enforce it. :mex:

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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by dbr » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:29 pm

Mondi wrote:A good businessman looking at the Canucks situation probably wouldn't think it is a good business decision to throw 18 million at Miller when the REALITY is that the difference between he and Lack is not enough for this team to make the playoffs.

They get 41 homes dates with or without Ryan Miller.

He's a decent player, but he's no better than Luongo and we JUST got out from under that rock.

A businessmen looking at long term success of NHL teams would no that hanging around .500 is not the way to climb the mountain.

So no, this was not a good business decision.
Yeah I guess the Aquilinis are not good businessmen. :lol:

I would wager that "a good businessman" probably recognizes that when you sell a dogshit product to 18000 or so consumers about 30/41 times one year (with virtually the entire marketplace of prospective consumers watching this unfold) you are probably going to be in tough to sell the same product - or worse - to the same people 41 times the following year.

For all of the "hanging around .500 is not the way to go" stuff we hear from fans, it's pretty damned clear that the ones who buy most of the tickets want to watch a team that has a chance to win any given night, because they leave in droves when that's not the case.

How were ticket sales in 1997-98? Are you and your friends going to shell out $100/person to go get mediocre seats, food and a beer or two while watching the Canucks get pasted by Phoenix and fall to 20-30-10 on the season? I sure won't.

I'd wager that a big revenue (when things are going well) team like the Canucks, with the fair weather fan base they have, probably see a scorched earth rebuild as the kind of thing that costs them tens of millions of dollars across a few seasons.

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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Meds » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:37 pm

Mondi wrote:A good businessman looking at the Canucks situation probably wouldn't think it is a good business decision to throw 18 million at Miller when the REALITY is that the difference between he and Lack is not enough for this team to make the playoffs.
Actually I think it is enough of a difference. Lack was decent, but there were plenty of games in the last 3 weeks of the season where he let in some very questionable goals. I write this off to fatigue.
Mondi wrote: They get 41 homes dates with or without Ryan Miller.
Very astute observation Mondi.....you come up with this on your own? Either way, it's the most accurate thing you've ever said.
Mondi wrote: He's a decent player, but he's no better than Luongo and we JUST got out from under that rock.
And we are still out from under "that rock". Luongo was signed here until he was 41 or 42. Miller is here until he is 37, and we have a GM that will no doubt ask him to waive his NTC (or submit his list of teams). I would venture to say that Miller and Benning have a verbal agreement that this will happen if the team isn't turning around and contending.
Mondi wrote: A businessmen looking at long term success of NHL teams would no that hanging around .500 is not the way to climb the mountain.

So no, this was not a good business decision.
I don't think the plan is to hang around .500.....do you really think that's the plan? :look:

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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by kelowna kanuck » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:07 pm

dbr wrote:
Mondi wrote:A good businessman looking at the Canucks situation probably wouldn't think it is a good business decision to throw 18 million at Miller when the REALITY is that the difference between he and Lack is not enough for this team to make the playoffs.

They get 41 homes dates with or without Ryan Miller.

He's a decent player, but he's no better than Luongo and we JUST got out from under that rock.

A businessmen looking at long term success of NHL teams would no that hanging around .500 is not the way to climb the mountain.

So no, this was not a good business decision.
Yeah I guess the Aquilinis are not good businessmen. :lol:

I would wager that "a good businessman" probably recognizes that when you sell a dogshit product to 18000 or so consumers about 30/41 times one year (with virtually the entire marketplace of prospective consumers watching this unfold) you are probably going to be in tough to sell the same product - or worse - to the same people 41 times the following year.

For all of the "hanging around .500 is not the way to go" stuff we hear from fans, it's pretty damned clear that the ones who buy most of the tickets want to watch a team that has a chance to win any given night, because they leave in droves when that's not the case.

How were ticket sales in 1997-98? Are you and your friends going to shell out $100/person to go get mediocre seats, food and a beer or two while watching the Canucks get pasted by Phoenix and fall to 20-30-10 on the season? I sure won't.

I'd wager that a big revenue (when things are going well) team like the Canucks, with the fair weather fan base they have, probably see a scorched earth rebuild as the kind of thing that costs them tens of millions of dollars across a few seasons.
Thanks dbr you outlined my point entirely. Every game they play, they draw revenue. Every playoff home game is additional revenue. The fact is, as much as diehard angst ridden fans are wanting a Stanley Cup, you DO NOT need to win a cup to be a profitable franchise , but YOU DO need to get asses in seats and keep them entertained.
Mondi, I think the Aquas have done pretty well as businessmen with this team. Should I remind you what they bought it for and for what the market value currently is??? They have made a fucking shitload of money, and know you have to be entertaining and competitive to max revenue, not win the cup.
more cap space!

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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Aaronp18 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:18 pm

I know this has probable been stated but I'm not digging through the whole thread.

This is a good signing plain and simple.

If it works out and Miller plays well he gives us a chance to win, we see the playoffs and see what this team can do. We still have cap space and guys Benning would like to move. As we get closer to the start of the season teams close to the cap are going to want to shed salary, we still have a lot of room under the cap.

Who else were we going to spend cap space on?

If we still don't win and make the playoffs after a couple seasons Miller will probably be willing to head to a contender again. Even if we get a bag of pucks for him in a trade we've gained assets for nothing!

Nice signing Benning.

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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Rayxor » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:23 pm

Mondi wrote:Despite the odd profanity...think about it this way.

Winnipeg finished ahead of us, so not sure what you're basing that prognostication on.

Calgary is trending up, we traded away our best forward, and they finished six points behind us.

Islanders were four points behind us and they have John Tavares. Plus they now have a reasonable goalie.

Edmonton is unpredictable, but they suck. Buffalo sucks.

We are looking at a pick from 1 to 5 almost certainly, without more scoring.
I agree with what you say about the Jets and Oilers. They shouldn't be among the lowest picks

I don't think the Flames are trending up just yet. They overachieved last year and could fall back.

I think Ottawa could could challenge for the pick. If you think our center position has holes, look what they have.

Detroit could finally run out of good fortune as well. Anyone concerned about the aging Sedin's production should look at the number of Detroit players who are at least their age.

With Miller, we will have solid goaltending with a well seasoned vet, a good backup and decent prospects on the farm. This will be the first year in... god knows how many years where we don't have serious drama in net.

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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Nuckertuzzi » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:26 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:I wonder what would've happened if the LA Kings followed your brilliant guidance when they brought in Justin Williams in 2008-09, when they finished 14th in the West? Or if Chicago said "fuck it" to a Patrick Sharp trade.
Good points. Notice I did say 98% of the moves don't impact their teams. Of course a few do...maybe I should drop the number down to what like 90% but the majority of the moves don't impact their teams much and I stand by that. Ultimately it worked for teams like the Kings and Hawks because they're teams built through the draft with a number of blue chip parts in place who matured at the right time (don't think Williams and Sharp makes a dent on those teams if they don't draft Toews, Kane, Doughty, Kopitar, etc., etc.). They represent the 10% who had realistic hope. Another good example you could have used were our signings of Hamhuis, Malhotra and Torres that summer before we got to the Finals? Those were good worthwhile signings because it was made from a team that already had promise that just needed a bit more to augment their chances.

If you're a bubble team like we are now, and most of the teams are, picking up bit parts from a pretty lame UFA crop really does little to impact their chances of winning a Cup. And isn't that the ultimate goal? That said, I agree with you that GM's can't simply stand by and do nothing. It's their job to improve their teams so I can't criticize them for trying.
Island Nucklehead wrote:Really? C'mon. There have been 5 Canadian teams in the cup finals in the 20 since Montreal won. So 1/4 Finals generally features a Canadian team. As for rebuilding, Edmonton has obviously had a lot of high-end picks lately. The Canucks sucked ass for a while (Bryan Allen 4th OA, Sedins 2/3 OA), the Leafs have done a lot of it lately, and Calgary is doing it now. Seems that Canadian franchises know how to tank, or at least still manage to do it consistently enough.
Yeah a few made the Finals but way too few and fact remains nobody won in 21 years. It could just be coincidence, perhaps we collectively do a poor job of hiring the right people to lead our teams. I don't know exactly what it is but I do think the pressure in our country has something to do with it. Tanking for picks is just not an option, particularly in bigger markets like Montreal, Toronto and probably here.

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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Per » Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:00 pm

Hockey Widow wrote: throwing the kids into the fire to sink or swim has never been a recipe for success.
:shock:

No, of course kids will not learn to swim by being thrown into the fire!
You throw them in the deep end of the pool! Makes much more sense.
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by ORCA » Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:15 pm

Teams I think are on par (give or take 5 points in the standings) or worse (on paper) than the Canucks right now:

Edmonton
Calgary
Arizona *(I will screw this up about 846 times over the next year)
Nashville
Columbus
Winnepeg
New Jersey
New York Islanders
Carolina
Florida
Ottawa

"Maybe's" (likely better than Van, but that we might finish ahead of overall):
Washington
Detroit
Philly
Minnesota
Dallas

The Eastern 'maybe's' will get a boost from the sheer weakness of that conference. Who knows about Dallas and Minny. They got better, and have seemed to get better every year... but I don't think either are a decisive "yes" for beating out Vancouver in the standings (though it is looking more likely)

Point of all that? I guess a bit of illustration to emphasize how mediocre and "stuck" we could be. There are a lot of bad teams. So many that realistically hoping for a lottery pick is... well, not going to happen. On the other (and more terrible) side is that most of the west is considerably better than we are (on paper)...which means the likelihood of a playoff spot is small, and a favorable draw even moreso.

So... If its bad business to tank, but also bad business to not improve...(through a draft pick or 2 and some trades).. then what exactly are we doing?
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Rumsfeld » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:25 pm

ORCA wrote: Who knows about Dallas and Minny. They got better, and have seemed to get better every year... but I don't think either are a decisive "yes" for beating out Vancouver in the standings (though it is looking more likely)
Really?

Up front they are both vastly superior to us.

Yoy need to give us more credit Orca, we're shittier than that. :D

We have one of the very worst offensive forward groups in the league.
Washington
Detroit
Philly
Minnesota
Dallas
All significantly better than us IMO.
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Strangelove » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:15 pm

Betamax wrote:
Tciso wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1426152/vanco ... an-miller/

Miller’s modified no-trade clause reportedly allows him to provide the Canucks with list of only 5 teams he’ll allow for trade.
Good to know, Canucks haven't made this kind of info available much in the past. :drink:
I would have preferred 10 or 15 teams. I mean, if he wants to not be traded, he just names 5 teams with $7mil goalies, and voila, he is untradeable. Oh well. As far as NTC go, this one doesn't totally stink.
duh, if those reports are true, Miller's so called "modified no-trade clause" is effectively a FULL no trade clause if he fully desires to enforce it. :mex:
Nah, IF Miller is unlikely to be that kind of asshole (given the backlash from the rabid fanbase).

And if he were that kind of asshole, Canucks would probably in turn retain 1/3 salary

.... trading him to a location he doesn't actually want to be. :mex:

But this is crazy talk, it is highly unlikely Canucks will be looking to dump a guy like Miller on a short-term deal.
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Strangelove » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:16 pm

ukcanuck wrote: Colour me mystified at all the long time Canuck fans on here who actually think that tanking would get the Canucks a first or second overall pick.
Yup, the Rubber Diaper Gang led by their new captain UDL have gone batshit crazy.

(no offense Dan)

Last year was the Prima Donna Sideshow (Luongo/Kesler/Torts).

Not to mention all the injuries combined with a severe lack of depth.

And STILL they were "lucky" to draft as high as 6th.

That was rock-bottom, a bounce-back of sorts is the only logical prediction.

I think these guys are just trying to avoid further embarrassment by telling themselves/everyone:

"My team is really really really ridiculously shitty?? I WIN!!!"

In fairness to UDL, moving to Alberta decreases one's IQ by 50% (the water + cow fumes + rub-off effect).
ukcanuck wrote: ... am I the only one who thinks that a rebound year is coming for many Canuck core players?
I think most of the longtimers realize this.
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Strangelove » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:17 pm

Mondi wrote: A good businessman looking at the Canucks situation probably wouldn't think it is a good business decision to throw 18 million at Miller when the REALITY is that the difference between he and Lack is not enough for this team to make the playoffs.



He's a decent player, but he's no better than Luongo and we JUST got out from under that rock.

A businessmen looking at long term success of NHL teams would no that hanging around .500 is not the way to climb the mountain.
So you ignore my response to you saying the same things earlier and continue in this vein? :?

Thought I pretty much used your own logic to prove you wrong but oh well.
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by Strangelove » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:17 pm

Mondi wrote: We are looking at a pick from 1 to 5 almost certainly, without more scoring.
:shock:

You and I may be headed for an avatar bet Mondi. :drink:

LOL I'd probably choose a goofy Captain Picard avy.... oh wait. :mrgreen:
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Re: CANUCKS SIGN RYAN MILLER

Post by ukcanuck » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:41 pm

Nuckertuzzi wrote:That's not to say I like the deal, it's just one way to look at it.

I share the common opinion that we need to finish near the bottom this year. Not interested in the playoffs the next couple years. I want a Cup and the fastest route there is through the draft with real blue chip picks to lead our group of mid level picks. Trades, UFA signings and more mediocre picks will only prolong the drought.
So many people seem to believe this but it doesn't stand up to logic. Which teams exactly since the salary cap have gone from cellar dweller to Stanley cup champs based on drafting blue chip prospects?
I remember the hawks sucking for a significant stretch of time before getting lucky with Toews and Kane.. And the penguins scored pretty well with Crosby and Malkin but have one cup to show for it. other than that, a lot of teams have spent a lot of time in the basement and drafting high and have about the same to show for it cup wise as the Canucks.

Drafting well at whatever position you pick is more important. So is developing those picks and spending wisely on FAs, as well as trading from a position if strength...

Something Benning looks like he is capable of doing which hasn't been true since maybe Burke ...

I can't believe I just said that....I think I just threw up a little I'm mouth.

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