Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Ronning's Ghost
MVP
MVP
Posts: 999
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:25 pm
Location: New Westminster

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by Ronning's Ghost »

There's a great U.S. politics discussion thread ready-made right here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9618&start=45

Hope to see you all over at the bar.
User avatar
Doyle Hargraves
MVP
MVP
Posts: 19964
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

Ronning's Ghost wrote:There's a great U.S. politics discussion thread ready-made right here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9618&start=45

Hope to see you all over at the bar.
And this is what drives the good posters away.


Fucking idiots.
“Gohmert and Bumpty sitting in a tree”
griz
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by griz »

damonberryman wrote:
griz wrote:
Minnesota is going to secede from the USA once Trump wins. Sorry, I thought everyone knew that.
Right. Because the evil criminal bitch is a better choice? :scowl:
You misogynist POS. What do you base this on that is fact, not Republican B.S.?
Lol, yeah right. I'm not for Hitlary so I'm against Women right? I base it on history. 5 minutes of Googling will reveal why she's no leader. There's almost too many facts out there. I don't know if Trump will be good overall, but the establishment is totally against him and that's interesting. Likely we're all fools in the end if history has anything to teach.
Yes, Drumpf is bad enough that an evil criminal bitch is a better choice. But let's only talk about that in the Bar and Grill.
Why is Trump bad again? Anyone? Or is it just fashionable to mindlessly attack him?

I'll move further discussion to the other thread as per your request.
Lloyd Braun
CC Veteran
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by Lloyd Braun »

griz wrote:Why is Trump bad again? Anyone? Or is it just fashionable to mindlessly attack him?
Not the place to get into it, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen written on this here messageboard.
damonberryman
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1147
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:07 am

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by damonberryman »

Lloyd Braun wrote:
griz wrote:Why is Trump bad again? Anyone? Or is it just fashionable to mindlessly attack him?
Not the place to get into it, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen written on this here messageboard.
Agreed but I will let it go. Not the place and perhaps I had one beer too many when I posted. Do not mean to be rude but I am living in NY and the choice between who to vote for has never been so dramatic and important. I remain Canadian though I have been a permanent resident for years. However, my kids and grandkid are Yanks and I do not want them to be represented by a fool who is having sex with Putin. That's it. I am done with the political horseshit.
User avatar
Tciso
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 2085
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:44 am

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by Tciso »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Ronning's Ghost wrote:There's a great U.S. politics discussion thread ready-made right here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9618&start=45

Hope to see you all over at the bar.
And this is what drives the good posters away.


Fucking idiots.

I apologize for the turn this thread took. I was simply covering my own a$$ after saying that Jordan Schroeder was a Canadian. Adding Minnesota to Canada was a quick and dirty way to correct a mistaken nationality. My bad.
The Cup is soooooo ours!!!!!!!
User avatar
SKYO
CC Legend
Posts: 11901
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by SKYO »

Over my extensive trade history I have zero hits LOL.

All the obvious trades never happened, all we have is rumours the GM has checked in on a deal and for whatever reason it never worked out, too expensive, they didn't want a contract in return, they only wanted our best prospects or a 1st rounder, or we got a NTC yadayada, so it never happened.

Most are expecting Kane, mostly cause he's a troubled man, and his last shot of turning a corner and creating a NHL career, it seems fitting it's here with his family in his time of need.

But it's always a deal none of us thought of that happens out of nowhere, like sbisa/pedan for Andreas Athanasiou.

Redwings have a logjam up front and a need for a dman, and us vice versa depth wise.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."
User avatar
Madcombinepilot
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4118
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk.

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by Madcombinepilot »

SKYO wrote:Over my extensive trade history I have zero hits LOL.

All the obvious trades never happened, all we have is rumours the GM has checked in on a deal and for whatever reason it never worked out, too expensive, they didn't want a contract in return, they only wanted our best prospects or a 1st rounder, or we got a NTC yadayada, so it never happened.

Most are expecting Kane, mostly cause he's a troubled man, and his last shot of turning a corner and creating a NHL career, it seems fitting it's here with his family in his time of need.

But it's always a deal none of us thought of that happens out of nowhere, like sbisa/pedan for Andreas Athanasiou.

Redwings have a logjam up front and a need for a dman, and us vice versa depth wise.
While I recognize our need for forwards, for once I am strangely comfortable with our depth at D in some solid blue chip prospects.. If there is a couple fringe deals, go for it, but I am willing to let our forward prospects develop another year.. rebuilds (stealth rebuilds especially) take time, and we need to build from the net out, which is exactly what Benning is doing.

patience is what is needed here.

so, I don't see a pressing need to trade with the Wings, and unless we are only giving a 1/2 bag of pucks (I mean true and utter rape), I'll take a pass on EKane
The 'Chain of Command' is the chain I am going to beat you with until you understand I am in charge.
griz
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by griz »

Lloyd Braun wrote:
griz wrote:Why is Trump bad again? Anyone? Or is it just fashionable to mindlessly attack him?
Not the place to get into it, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen written on this here messageboard.
Instead of providing any reasons why Trump is a bad choice, you attack. This kind of crap is everywhere.
While I recognize our need for forwards, for once I am strangely comfortable with our depth at D in some solid blue chip prospects.. If there is a couple fringe deals, go for it, but I am willing to let our forward prospects develop another year.. rebuilds (stealth rebuilds especially) take time, and we need to build from the net out, which is exactly what Benning is doing.

patience is what is needed here.
I agree. We do seem to have goaltending and D. LE will be a great addition to the forward group and I think patience will show us a much improved team.
Ronning's Ghost
MVP
MVP
Posts: 999
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:25 pm
Location: New Westminster

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by Ronning's Ghost »

griz wrote:Instead of providing any reasons why Trump is a bad choice, you attack. This kind of crap is everywhere
I provided reasons in the relevant thread in the Bar and Grill, where we all agreed such discussions belong, and where you said you were going.
griz
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by griz »

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
griz wrote:Instead of providing any reasons why Trump is a bad choice, you attack. This kind of crap is everywhere
I provided reasons in the relevant thread in the Bar and Grill, where we all agreed such discussions belong, and where you said you were going.
I've jumped over there to discuss your reasons RG. Thanks.
User avatar
SKYO
CC Legend
Posts: 11901
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by SKYO »

Madcombinepilot wrote:
While I recognize our need for forwards, for once I am strangely comfortable with our depth at D in some solid blue chip prospects.. If there is a couple fringe deals, go for it, but I am willing to let our forward prospects develop another year.. rebuilds (stealth rebuilds especially) take time, and we need to build from the net out, which is exactly what Benning is doing.

patience is what is needed here.

so, I don't see a pressing need to trade with the Wings, and unless we are only giving a 1/2 bag of pucks (I mean true and utter rape), I'll take a pass on EKane
I hear you, but the Canucks can do an even bigger trade with the wings! as they've been after Edler since before he got drafted, he's the epitome of Redwings culture, nothing flashy, just does a solid all-around job, look at this wings hfposter go into an analysis of a deal:

Originally Posted by TheOctopusKid:
I keep swirling around theses different ideas but I cannot seem to move beyond the idea that Ken is going to trade for Edler. Outside of it being a "Holland-like" move, it seems like a mutually beneficial trade for both of us...

Why Vancouver Makes the Move:
Vancouver won’t win the cup as they are currently constituted. Their core is aging and their talent and depth is thin. The franchise needs to inject young blood back into the system and start building again. The team seems committed to riding out the Sedins’ careers, which is admirable but it leaves them with few options going forward unless they all out tank for the next several years and accumulate Top 10 talent through the draft. If they take that route, keeping a player like Edler makes little sense for them when he could return essential pieces for them that would accelerate the rebuilding process.

Purposed Trade: Nyquist + Ouellet + 2nd for Alexander Edler

Add Nyquist – who sits at 26pts (13g 13a) – would give them a young, Top 6 winger who immediately would be 3rd in goals and 3rd in points on their team today. Nyquist is set for three more seasons at $4.75M and is still young enough to grow and improve. He would have an immediate impact on this team that is currently 25th overall in Goals Scored. He is a natural RW, which they have little or no depth at the position with Vrbata as their top option currently and in his final year of his contract at 34 years old. Nyquist fits their playstyle quite well and would be a very natural fit next to a Sedin.

Add Ouellet – Xavier is a nice young defensive prospect who plays a solid, well-rounded game. He is a product of Detroit’s system who is at this point, overripe to step into an NHL lineup. Realistically, he probably projects at this point to be a 2nd to 3rd pairing defenseman – but is young with upside. He will help lessen the loss of Edler to the Canucks blueline and contribute right away for them stepping over Sbisa and Weber as a third pair if not this season, certainly next season.

Add 2nd Round Pick – This is a value add and could be up for debate in terms of the details of it – perhaps an upgrade to a first in Vancouver throws back their 2nd or some small exchange in that way. Realistically, the Wings will pick somewhere between 15-25 in the 1st round and doing a 1st for a 2nd swap would only drop them 20 spots or so, else Vancouver could accept a straight up 2nd and add to their total count of picks as they try to refill the pipeline with more prospects.

Why Detroit Makes the Move:

Vancouver is in a difficult position where the best years of their core group is behind them with no help from their youth in the immediate future. They are going to need to at some point, retool with younger players and prospects so a quality for quantity swap would make sense for them. The problem at hand for them is that Edler has a NMC and most likely at this point would not agree to be sent to a bottom feeder team who would have the young assets that Vancouver would covet (thus removing the possibility of an overpayment from a team like EDM). The pool of available trade candidate narrows and lost keeps the price lower for the Wings and making their offer probably one of the more competitive out there:

Edler is a “Detroit” Player – Edler is exactly the type of player that Detroit covets: smart, understated, and skilled. During his draft year, he was highly prized by the scouting staff and was fleeced only a handful of pick before they planned on taking him. He plays a very smooth, positional, intelligent game that would immediately fit into the Detroit system and he has prior relationships with the Swedish members of our team. He is known for his solid all-round play, able to contribute offensively (consistently scoring 30+ point seasons or on pace for), and a very intelligent defensive game. He possess a very strong transition game that could jumpstart our attack and has been the anchor of the Vancouver defense logging very difficult minutes in all situations for the last 4 seasons. He is very reserved and for all accounts, a standup guy in the locker room.

A Reasonable Contract and Term – Edler is currently 29 and has a contract at $5M for the next 4 years. His prime years as a player at a very reasonable $5M in comparison open market value for quality defensemen (Big Buff at $7M+ for a long term – or a Shatty at even more term and length) – Edler at $5M for the next 4 seasons seems like a steal. Comparatively, he is sits between a Stralman at 4.5M and Petry at $5.5. A very good value and length of contract.

He Meets Our Needs – I believe that the Wings need a true number 1 star in defense, but those players are few and far between. In the absence of that, a quality top-flight defenseman at least improves our top 2 pairings, and pushes the defensive core down adding to depth and improving the 2nd and 3rd pairs. Edler pushes Ericcsson out of the Top 4 which in it of itself is a huge gain. More importantly, Edler brings a few more specific things to the Top 4. He currently sits 14th for defenseman in blocked shots – at 104 for the season (Danny D leads the Wings at 65). The Red Wings sit dead last as a team for total of 540 blocked shots. Similarly, we are 27th in Takeaways as a team, Dekeyser leads at 12, Edler sits at 14. Defensively, Edler does a lot of smaller things to protect and defend, and ultimately makes the Detroit D harder to score against. He also sits at the higher than any other Wing D-Man on total time on the PK.

However it’s our offensive that needs a boast and I believe, as the board as astutely identified, that our offensive woes could partially be solved by better defensive play. That is, stronger puck possession in the defensive zone to a more better breakout pass to our forwards so they have attack the neutral zone with speed, and more offensive participation in the offensive zone. Fortunately, those are all things that Edler does extremely well. He excels at a strong first pass and has an accurate and heavy shot from the point. He is top 30 across D-men for shots attempted (97 shots to Green’s 81), time on the power play (8th overall), and total time on the ice (15th overall).

Edler brings a very solid resume and would immediately step in on this team as its strongest defender (vs. Dekeyser) and its strongest offensive contributor (vs. Green). He is simply a difference maker

Why Edler Waives his NMC - I believe that Edler would waive his NMC to come play for the Wings if for no other reason than the fact that the Wings have a strong core of Swedish players whom he is very familiar with and respects (Zetterberg, Kronwall). And to prospect of playing for a team that has a strong young core in place could also be a nice determining factor for him.

The Cost Meets Our Needs – Nyquist, Ouellet and a Pick is a steep price however the utility of what is given up for what is returned makes sense for Detroit. Detroit has an overabundance of prospects and players to borders on redundant and only has so many available roster spots in which to slot them all in. Already we are pushing players like Pulks and Marchenko to on-again-off-again roles due to lack of meaningful ice time. This problem gets even worse next year when Ouellet comes up for good and younger players like Mantha and AA knocking at the door. It’s time to roll up some of these players into something more meaningful. Losing Nyquist hurts however he is replaceable with some combination of Teemu growing comfortable in a larger role or AA or Mantha stepping up. Similarly, Ouellet, would be another 2nd pair defensemen where we are already crowded. Packaging up these pieces into a Edler improves the top line, and clears out the glut of secondary depth to allow some of our other players the opportunity to contribute. Consequently, Edler’s age and term, gives us a nice 4 years period of time to work on developing a new top-pairing defenseman to roll into that position
As I said before the prices for dmen are pretty high, trading Edler right now although risky could be a boon for this franchise for now and long term, if we get a top 6 roster player, good prospect and a high pick for him, granted this is contingent on us swapping out another player to get a QB type top 2 LD to play with Tanev.

In fact I'd go one step further and make it Edler + Hansen to Detroit for roster player, top prospect winger and a 1st.
Keep winger for top 6 role.
Swap roster player+cbj 2nd for fowler.

Trading edler+hansen would allow JB to really put a stamp on this team.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."
User avatar
SKYO
CC Legend
Posts: 11901
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by SKYO »

The vancouver canucks media mogul has spoken

Wayward winger Evander Kane would fill Canucks’ scoring needs..
http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nh ... um=twitter
The mighty kuzma
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."
griz
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by griz »

As I said before the prices for dmen are pretty high, trading Edler right now although risky could be a boon for this franchise for now and long term, if we get a top 6 roster player, good prospect and a high pick for him, granted this is contingent on us swapping out another player to get a QB type top 2 LD to play with Tanev.

In fact I'd go one step further and make it Edler + Hansen to Detroit for roster player, top prospect winger and a 1st.
Keep winger for top 6 role.
Swap roster player+cbj 2nd for fowler.

Trading edler+hansen would allow JB to really put a stamp on this team.
Don't they say the team that gets the best player wins the trade?

Nyquist had 26 assists and 43 points. Decent for sure, but he's not a big winger and now we have LE.

Edler and Hansen gone? Some big shoes would need to be filled. Besides, adding OJ, LE and maybe EK(?) seems to be rebuilding on the fly.
User avatar
2Fingers
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5503
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:47 am

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2014-15-16

Post by 2Fingers »

Getting rid of Edler is addition by subtraction, get it done Mr. B
Locked