Do you want the Canucks' to make the Playoffs in 2014/15?

Betamax · Post by **Betamax** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:31 am

So, I was just reading the CC Trades and rumours (& fantasies) thread and there seems to be two distinct camps. One that wants to see the Canucks be aggressive this off-season and sign several high profile UFAs that include the likes of Miller, Iggy and/or Bolland to make the Playoffs and those that want to see the Canucks "tank" and miss the Playoffs for a chance to be in the Draft Lottery for a chance to draft McDavid/Eichel (two potential generational players).

What side are you on?

Betamax · Post by **Betamax** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:35 am

My own personal opinion is that it's in the Canucks best long-term interest to not make the Playoffs, so I wouldn't go after the likes of Miller, Iggy et al... for a shot of what the Canucks have never had, a generational talent that would set the franchise for the next decade or longer.

But, if Ownership has given Linden and Co. the mandate to do their best to make the Playoffs, they better go "all-in" in their pursuit of making the Playoffs, whether it be with UFA signings (Miller, Iggy etc.) and key trades and not go half-way and be in purgatory i.e. "almost making the Playoffs" or icing a team that will just get swept in the 1st round.

nuckster · Post by **nuckster** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:48 am

Funny the timing Betamax. I just finished writing this in another thread and then decided instead to cut and past it into the `Benning' thread and then I saw the new thread you produced. So some of what I say duplicates what you say.

My 2 cents:
- If it's true that Benning wants to see us become a playoff team right away, then I think it's unfortunate. Yeah we acquired a few decent draft picks, and the cupboard is becoming better stocked. BUT, there is no high end talent in that cupboard (bonafied first line material). We've got lots of 3rd and 4th line players on hand, and probably some decent 2nd line prospects, but who do we have that we can say with confidence, has the ability to take over first line duties once the Sedin's expire? I believe that we would benefit by being a basement team this year. Next year's draft is purported to be deep compared to what we saw this year, so why not set ourselves up to acquire as many high end picks as possible for 2015's draft?? I suppose that even if Benning/Linden were thinking that, they can't come out and say, 'yeah we're aiming to bomb this year', probably doesn't go over well with most of ther fan base

So when it comes to players like Burrows, Higgins, and Hansen, I think it would be super if the Canucks were able to acquire decent draft picks for them, if not soon, then later in 2015 before the trade deadline, and then help set ourselves up with picks next year.

Consider this, Buffalo picked 4 spots higher than us and they acquired both Reinhart and Lemieux. I don't know about you guys, but that resonates with a whole ton of promise and positivity for their future. Ofcourse other examples exist with the other top few selections as well (Eckblad, Draisatl, Bennett). I don't wish to demean Virtanen, not at all, just saying the obvious that with a higher draft pick selection comes a much higher likelihood of acquiring a high end player (nothing new here).

So I would love to see us acquire picks for next years draft, and the only way we're likely going to acquire a high end first rounder is to bare witness to the Canucks missing the playoffs in 2015. While along the way, we can observe/witness the development of the newbys.

On a different but related note, do you suppose there's something to what Benning has stated (paraphrased here)re: up an coming players (rookies) need to play on winning teams; this is an important part of their development? Hence, his belief that we should be aspiring to be a winning team this upcoming year and make the playoffs. Do the recent Oilers serve as an example which supports Benning's view? Food-for-thought

2Fingers · Post by **2Fingers** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:19 am

dbr · Post by **dbr** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:25 am

I want the team to make the playoffs. I do not want them to undermine their long term interests (the aforementioned 'aggressive' offers to Bolland, Miller et al) to do so.

Despite the 'smoothed' draft lottery odds I expect a team finishing outside of the bottom five of the league still to not have much of a chance at #1 (Tim Murray said the last place team will still have a 19-20% shot) and I think the Canucks would have to actively try to be worse to get into one of those spots.

It might be in the long term interests of the franchise to have an awful season and pick 1st overall but I don't know that having an awful season and picking say 11th is going to be that much worse than making the playoffs and picking 16th.

SKYO · Post by **SKYO** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:10 am

Make the playoffs, what a shitty feeling it is to not make the big show & no we won't be tanking for McDavid/Eichel.

Hockey Widow · Post by **Hockey Widow** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:47 pm

A couple more trades, a couple of FA and we make the playoffs. A kid or two gets more experience, the others more development time. Clean up another 1-2 aging vets next year, another kid or two, maybe another FA and next year we are competing to go deep. Then it all comes together in year three and we are a contender again.

Betamax · Post by **Betamax** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:57 pm

SKYO wrote:Make the playoffs, what a shitty feeling it is to not make the big show & no we won't be tanking for McDavid/Eichel.

duh, if the Canucks are going "All-In" to make the Playoffs, they need to sign at least Miller AND a top UFA forward like Iggy that can play in the top-6 on shorter term deals with higher AAV (that ownership will be willing to retain AAV) that you could flip in a trade for pick(s)/prospect(s) at the TDL to a contender case things go FUBAR.

Just say no, to this Bolland B.S. who will be an overpaid 3C with a high AAV on a long term deal with a history of injury.

Now, making the Playoffs is one thing ...... having a decent chance to win at least one round should be the goal. I mean, what's the point of just getting there, to get their asses kicked like we saw the last two times the Canucks were there?

It would be a very successful season if the Canucks could win at least one round (if the goal is to make the Playoffs), preferably the team they eliminate is the Ducks, and the world can see Kesler's reaction during the handshakes.

However, if the Canucks don't think they can construct a team this season, that could in theory beat a team like the Ducks, best to just acknowledge that and play the "kids" and do a de facto "tank" job.

Although tanking won't guarantee either McDavid or Eichel ........ but at least missing the Playoffs gives you a chance to draft one of them.

Look at the NBA Cavaliers, they only had a 1.7% chance of winning the lottery and secured the No. 1 pick this season ............. guess what ........... they did.

As future NBA HOFer, and NBA Champion and part time philosopher, KG, once stated in an interview ...............

Rumsfeld · Post by **Rumsfeld** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:26 pm

Of course every fan wants to watch his/her team in the playoffs. It's what it's all about.

But I honestly think this is a lottery team if we don't dive into the FA pool. And this team is nowhere near as deep in prospects as our fans seem to think. It's just been so long since we've had any depth in that department that we think an average propect pool is an amazing one.

We still lack that superstar/first-line kind of prospect we will need in a few years when we're ready to take a run again. This draft is fucking stacked. We should also be able to aquire an extra '15 first-rounder at some point this season if Benning can make a good trade.

I hate to say it and I've never said it before this season, but: bite the bullet.

Let the kids play, keep good vets like Bieksa, Hamhuis and the twins around to mentor them... and think about what a top-five pick and a top-ten pick in next year's draft could net us: the chance to be competitive for a decade.

It's not tanking. It's just not loading up on overpriced guys who will do nothing but make us average... when we could be patient and be great.

herb · Post by **herb** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:45 pm

On the one hand, yes of course I want to make the playoffs.

On the other hand, this organization has been trending the wrong way for three seasons now, which is a long time in pro sports. While I do not think our star players are as bad as they all looked last season, they also won't be as good as they were in 2010, 2011 or 2012. Fuck, they may not be as good as 2013.

I could see us signing a couple of UFAs, make another trade or two and see guys like Hank and Edler get back to playing like all stars. I could conceivably see us getting back to being a competitive team.

Realistically though, teams don't usually sign two big name UFAs on one July 1. Especially teams surrounded by as much uncertainly as the Canucks.

More than anything, I'm looking forward to training camp and seeing how our youth looks. I'd love to see a situation where a couple of our young forward prospects legitimately make the team in September.

I know it's kind of sad, but having a handful of half decent prospects heading to the farm thing is one of the most exciting Canucks' related things to happen in this fan's eyes for a couple of years. I'd love to be sitting here in a year talking about the awesome 2015 NHL Entry Draft the Canucks just had.

Rumsfeld · Post by **Rumsfeld** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:49 pm

herb wrote: I'd love to be sitting here in a year talking about the awesome 2015 NHL Entry Draft the Canucks just had.

Yeah. Maybe Florida, Edmonton and Calgary can move up a few spots this year and stop embarassing themselves.

Buffalo gets McDavid, Canucks get Eichel.

OR we finish second or third last and win the lottery and get McDavid.

Oh right, Bettman still runs this league.

*puts down pipe*

Island Nucklehead · Post by **Island Nucklehead** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:57 pm

Rumsfeld wrote: Let the kids play, keep good vets like Bieksa, Hamhuis and the twins around to mentor them... and think about what a top-five pick and a top-ten pick in next year's draft could net us: the chance to be competitive for a decade.

It's not tanking. It's just not loading up on overpriced guys who will do nothing but make us average... when we could be patient and be great.

Agreed. The big mistake the Oilers made was dumping all their vets at once and bringing the kids along in mentality that accepts, breeds and projects failure. Vets like the Sedins, Hamhuis and Bieksa are key to making the young guys like Tanev, Kassian and eventually Horvat/Shinkaruk/Virtanen/McCann accountable and professionals.

I would hope the Canucks allow the team to run its natural course. A great pick in next years draft could really set this team up for a decade plus, and allow the team to be competitive again as soon as 2016. Bringing in guys like Miller and Iginla might win us just enough games to miss the playoffs AND the good draft choices.

I'd hope the Canucks management understands this, and I'm sure they do, but the playoff revenue and season ticket numbers will prevent them from doing what they know is the best/surest way to improving the long-term success of the franchise. They'll be very active in Free Agency. Unlike a team like Tampa that needs 1-2 pieces to get to that "next level", the Canucks need their FA's to become key members of the team, something that rarely happens.

mathonwy · Post by **mathonwy** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:04 pm

I withhold my answer to this question until midway through the upcoming season.

If all of the following happen by January 31, 2015:
- Both Sedins are in the top 20 scorers in this league with at least one of them in the top 10
- Our PK and PP percentages are in the top 20% of the league
- We have at least one player on pace for 40 goals
- Our faceoff percentage is top 15.
- Lack's save percentage is over .92
- Alex Edler's +/- is positive.

Then the answer is yes.

Otherwise, no.

Chef Boi RD · Post by **Chef Boi RD** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:30 pm

I'm in tune with my neighbour one block to the south - Rummy. We are a lottery team in 2015. The western conference is too strong and the weaker teams in the west are getting stronger. Also agree with Rummy about our prospect pool, it's improved greatly, much deeper now but because of how shitty our prospect pool was it's not as great as we think it is. I'd rather have Barzal than Eichel, yes, call me crazy but Barzal is a local kid and Eichel is American. Barzal and Eichel are both centres, so going with the American D-man - Hanifin might be the wiser with our plethora of prospect centres in the system

Hockey Widow · Post by **Hockey Widow** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:07 pm

I'm on the side that wants to make the playoffs. The off season is way too long otherwise

But another benefit from not making the playoffs is that fewer season tickets holders renew, opening the door for a better bread of Canuck fan to step up and take those tickets. Maybe ones that don't have a cell phone glued to their ear and actually go to watch the game and cheer. Could happen you know. We need some blue collar heart filled fans in those seats!

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