Kesler traded to Anaheim!

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the Dogsalmon
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by the Dogsalmon »

Aaronp18 wrote:
Reefer2 wrote: I dont care about the names on the back just the logo on the front.
This is it essentially.

Most of us have been following the Canucks to see players come and go like a rotating door. I want the team to win, to bring the Stanley Cup to Vancouver! This means doing whatever it takes to win. I'll tolerate controversial players if they are contributing to our success.

Kesler was huge for us, but recently he hasn't even been contributing to our success (not that there was much of it). It was very evident he didn't want to play here. So if you don't want to be here - bye bye. Don't let the door hit you...

I won't ever follow a player that was once a Canuck. They are the enemy once they leave.

Damn right...
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Lancer
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by Lancer »

Hockey Widow wrote:Kinda like Bieksa said, it's easy to want to be here when the team is winning, harder when times are tough. It's the tough times when leadership shows up. Kesler showed he had no off ice leadership. On the ice, most games, he let his play do the talking. And that type of skill and intensity is important. But what it lacks shows up when the team plays poorly. Guys like Kesler with their inflated egos and opinions of self worth take credit for the glory but blame others when the team doesn't have success.

He will be a quick fan favourite in Anaheim because he will show up with that intensity but if they fail to win a cup he will bolt for greener pastures. Wonder how they will feel about the loss of Sbisa, Bonino, and the loss of the 24th then? Of course if they win the cup in the next two years it will have been well worth it for them.
+1

Funny how the photobomber disappeared after 2011. No doubt he will compete his ass off while the Ducks are contending. Lord help the Ducks if they appear to be on a down-swing because they will have a hell of a time trying to offload him then when his agent starts calling Murray twice a day to get traded.

I've been a fan of his since his rookie season, and as the years wore on I was willing to forgive his petulant episodes and immaturity in addition to some of his on-ice antics. He was a fierce competitor with skill, speed and size to match. Now, especially with all that's coming out. I'm done with him.

In a way, I'm glad he wanted out because consensus around here was he was the best asset Benning had to trade in order to re-shape the team. What kind of chokes me still is his hand-cuffing Benning by essentially only waiving to two teams. I get wanting to go to a contender, but there are more than just two contenders out there so that move just confirmed his reputation.

I won't boo him necessarily, but neither will I root for him to win the Cup either.
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Tciso
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by Tciso »

Hockey Widow wrote:Kinda like Bieksa said, it's easy to want to be here when the team is winning, harder when times are tough. It's the tough times when leadership shows up. Kesler showed he had no off ice leadership.
I am glad he wasn't named Captain a few years back when it went from Lou to Sedin. I remember thinking at the time Kes would have been a better choice. [invisible font] I was wrong [/invisible font]
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by herb »

The most common favorite Canucks amongst friends of mine has most commonly been Kesler.

I've always thought Kesler was an obnoxious prick. It worked in the team's favor, for the most part, over his tenure here, but his "me first" attitude always rubbed me the wrong way. If I'm building a team, I'll take a Bieksa over a Kesler any day.

Anyway, Kesler was probably our second best player and the team will miss him in the short run. Although, somebody has posted the stats (I think it was Blob) of how the team's record has actually been pretty damn good with Kesler out of the lineup. Now, with Hank out of the lineup it has been an entirely different story.
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Meds
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by Meds »

Mondi wrote:The team was fine after it lost Bure, Moginly, Linden, Naslund, Bertuzzi...Kesler is no different.
It's a lot different actually, I would say that all 5 of those players were more talented and valuable to the Canucks. :P
I might even predict a little addition by subtraction. Just given the change in the atmosphere around team (from what we, as fans, hear about the attitude of RK).

That said, Bonino is not a HUGE step back. And, Bonino + Vrbata is probably = or > Kesler + Booth.

I'm not worried about the team being worse than last year, but being better than last year still doesn't get them in the playoffs or winning a round.
This rebuild will take some patience on the part of the fans. Especially after having become accustomed to the Canucks being near the top of the league for so long, particularly in the regular season. But top teams bow out of the playoffs early all the time, look at the number of seasons that Detroit was considered a contender and finished the regular season in the top 5 teams in the league only to be gone in the first or second round. The Canucks will probaby be a playoff team, likely in the wild card spot, and they might even upset a top seed or two over the next few seasons. It'll be interesting to see what happens, and I won't be disappointed if the team does shit the bed again and we end up with a top pick next year.
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by SKYO »

Happy trading RK jump started our youth movement on the fly, now we got some young players who can play FT next season, plus trading Kes means we took out the illusion that we are Cup contenders after the back to back prez trophies and cup final run...team grew stale after years of the same core with no youth tacked on (thanks MG *sarcasm*).

Team should have a slow start (luongoesq), but should pick it up asap once players build chemistry and the coaches mix and mash till they find that chemistry on all 4 lines and 3 D pairings + Miller/Lack working with the defense.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by griz »

Mondi wrote:Kesler was more valuable to the team than Todd Bertuzzi, Alex Mogilny, and Trevor Linden at the time they were traded.

But, I take your point.
Meh. I'm not so sure about that.

Linden brought the complete package including leadership. He scored 30+ goals 6 times. 0.81 PPG in his last (shortened) season with the Canucks. Kesler hasn't had an 80 point season yet, though has come close twice.

Bertuzzi was an integral part of the WCE and also played well with the Sedins. He's scored more goals in a single season and had 85 and 97 point seasons for the Canucks. Even during his final year with Vancouver he scored 71 points. The Moore incident certainly made matters worse.

You can't compared Kesler and Alex Moginly. Kesler never scored 50 goals as a canuck (let alone 76 for the Sabres) and nor has he been a "point per game" player over his career. Kesler wasn't as much of a game changer as Almo.

Naslund and Bure ... need I say anything :)
It's a lot different actually, I would say that all 5 of those players were more talented and valuable to the Canucks.
I agree meds.
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by Island Nucklehead »

griz wrote:
Mondi wrote:Kesler was more valuable to the team than Todd Bertuzzi, Alex Mogilny, and Trevor Linden at the time they were traded.

But, I take your point.
Meh. I'm not so sure about that.

Linden brought the complete package including leadership. He scored 30+ goals 6 times. 0.81 PPG in his last (shortened) season with the Canucks. Kesler hasn't had an 80 point season yet, though has come close twice.

Bertuzzi was an integral part of the WCE and also played well with the Sedins. He's scored more goals in a single season and had 85 and 97 point seasons for the Canucks. Even during his final year with Vancouver he scored 71 points. The Moore incident certainly made matters worse.

You can't compared Kesler and Alex Moginly. Kesler never scored 50 goals as a canuck (let alone 76 for the Sabres) and nor has he been a "point per game" player over his career. Kesler wasn't as much of a game changer as Almo.

Naslund and Bure ... need I say anything :)
Did you miss the "at the time they were traded" qualifier?

Bertuzzi brought back Roberto Luongo. Significant upgrade for a damaged player.

Linden brought back Bertuzzi, McCabe (who was later instrumental in the Sedin deal) and Ruutu. It's easily one of the best trades the Canucks have ever made.

Mondi's point was that all three of those guys saw there "best before" dates with the Canucks when they were dealt. I get the feeling the same will be true for Kesler, although the return is less than what the others brought back.
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by Jovocop »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
griz wrote:
Mondi wrote:Kesler was more valuable to the team than Todd Bertuzzi, Alex Mogilny, and Trevor Linden at the time they were traded.

But, I take your point.
Meh. I'm not so sure about that.

Linden brought the complete package including leadership. He scored 30+ goals 6 times. 0.81 PPG in his last (shortened) season with the Canucks. Kesler hasn't had an 80 point season yet, though has come close twice.

Bertuzzi was an integral part of the WCE and also played well with the Sedins. He's scored more goals in a single season and had 85 and 97 point seasons for the Canucks. Even during his final year with Vancouver he scored 71 points. The Moore incident certainly made matters worse.

You can't compared Kesler and Alex Moginly. Kesler never scored 50 goals as a canuck (let alone 76 for the Sabres) and nor has he been a "point per game" player over his career. Kesler wasn't as much of a game changer as Almo.

Naslund and Bure ... need I say anything :)
Did you miss the "at the time they were traded" qualifier?

Bertuzzi brought back Roberto Luongo. Significant upgrade for a damaged player.

Linden brought back Bertuzzi, McCabe (who was later instrumental in the Sedin deal) and Ruutu. It's easily one of the best trades the Canucks have ever made.

Mondi's point was that all three of those guys saw there "best before" dates with the Canucks when they were dealt. I get the feeling the same will be true for Kesler, although the return is less than what the others brought back.
The winner of the trade will be decided by what kind of a player is McCann going to be, Ryan Kesler or Nathan Smith?
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by ClamRussel »

Kesler left the team how he played it on the ice. Hard, aggressive, leaving a swath of enemies...but certainly thinking only of himself. Thinking back & watching highlites you can see it in his face. The celebrations. They weren't about the team, they were about him. That's all he ever cared about. Sure he wanted the team to win, but that was for him...to be on a winner. Recall him slapping his stick on the ice....demanding the pass...because he's better off w/ the puck than anyone else....behaving like some asshole in beerleague or spoiled brat in pee wee. He only passed when he ran out of options. He was never a good distributor of the puck, he never wanted to be. It's about him. It always was.

He screwed the Canucks royally with his 2-team list.

All that mattered was RK.

The sad thing is, if he really wanted to see this thing through. Stuck it out. Benning prob would have acquired Vrbata for him, brought in Miller. Perhaps Iginla would have come, who knows how things would have went. If he had re-upped here & helped turn things around we'd probably have seen 17 up in the rafters when it was all said and done. Now...not so much.

Let the booing commence!
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by griz »

Mondi wrote:I guess the phrase "at the time they were traded" means nothing to you.

AT THE TIME THEY WERE TRADED:
Island Nucklehead wrote:Did you miss the "at the time they were traded" qualifier?
No fellas. I didn't miss the qualifier.
Mondi wrote:Bertuzzi was a winger. Who didn't kill penalties or back check. With a cancerous attitude.
Not sure that being a winger or not killing penalties diminished Daniel Sedin's value to the club. Or Bure's. Or Mogilny's. Not sure about the attitude part either. I've heard worse about Kesler's attitude. During Todd's final season with the Canucks he scored 0.86 ppg and was only 2 seasons removed from a 97 point performance.
Mondi wrote:Linden was scoring about .5 ppgs and a minus player.
Linden had been a near point-per-game guy the year before and two years earlier had hit career highs in gaols (33), assists (47) and total points (80). You are pointing the spotlight on his last half-season with the Canucks when he was being steamrolled by Messier and Keenan and ultimately shown the door. His true value to the club was far greater than what those 42 games implied and so I think it is an unfair assesement.

BTW during Kesler's last season with the Canucks, he got 0.5 ppg.
Mondi wrote:But Kesler in 2009-2011 was as valuable as Linden or Bertuzzi ever were for a season or two.
Hey. I thought we were talking about at the time they were traded? :)
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Jovocop wrote:The winner of the trade will be decided by what kind of a player is McCann going to be, Ryan Kesler or Nathan Smith?
Good point.
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by ClamRussel »

Mondi wrote:Kesler > Mogilny (mercurial talent, obviously still a great player, but not for Van)
I think you're wrong on this point, the year he was traded to Jersey he was great. He was on fire and we were back in the hunt for a playoff spot. He was on a torrid pace with like 10 goals in his last 15 games for us, something like that. Mogilny had one superb season in Van, followed by a very good one...then 2 lacklustre-injury plagued seasons. His 5th season was different, he seemed recharged. Who knows, if he hadn't been traded we may have made the playoffs that year. Almo wasn't the checker Kesler was, different players...he was way more talented offensively and one of the best (and underrated) playmakers this team has ever had. I saw him thread the needle through about 5 players and the sauce landed flat on Tikkanen's tape. Mogilny's understandable frustration in Van was the total erosion of talent around him. Ronning was his centre for his 55 goal season...then he was let go. Bure was traded. With a talent like Mogilny the Canucks failed to build the team around him....just like they failed to build it around Bure (letting Larionov go was not a smart move). Perhaps the Canucks failed in building a line around Kesler as well but as a center RK is a difficult player to begin with. There's a reason Torts saw him as a winger, he's not a playmaker by nature.
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by ClamRussel »

I think he would have done that here if he had stayed, they finally got him a C he clicked w/ again. Cassels. Things were on the upswing & he was inspired, unlike Kesler.
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Re: Kesler traded to Anaheim!

Post by Meds »

Mondi wrote:If you can't see how D. Sedin's value to the team has dminished, you're not being honest about it. If you are a winger and you don't score, you better PK and back check.

The post was always about value when they were traded--and that takes into account the circumstances. Why wouldn't it?


Kesler > Bertuzzi (Post-Moore he was nothing like the earlier season, bad attitude, no PK, no back check)
From 2001-2006, Bertuzzi averaged 1.026 ppg. He may not have been the same player "post-Moore", but he still put up 71 points in 82 games in his final season with the Canucks. Kesler's best season with the Canucks was 75 points in 82 games. If you take Kesler's best 4 seasons and stack them up next to Bert's, Ryan doesn't come close.

At the time of their respective departures, Bertuzzi was coming off of 71pts in 82gp, while Kesler was leaving behind 43pts in 77gp.

As for their attitudes, well they both sucked, apparently. Bert was always a brooding grump, but I never felt that his play suffered much from the Moore bullshit. When he returned to the ice it was Crawford who decided to split up him and Nazzy to create depth throughout the lineup, both of them saw a drop in production that can be attributed as much to that as anything else. Kesler's attitude off the ice is sounding like it was as much a cancer for this team as anything Bert's was.

As for Linden, look at his stats immediately before Iron Mike showed up, and look at what happened to his production with the Islanders to finish that season after he was traded. Then look at Linden's playoff production compared to Kesler's. He wasn't the same player after that season, but he was also relegated to 3rd and 4th line duties for a good chunk of his remaining career.

Your argument of value at time of trade doesn't stand up in this case at all.
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