If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would ya?

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If trading Horvat + 6th pick was the only way to acquire the 2014 1st pick, would ya do it?

Poll ended at Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:43 am

YES! YES! YES!
9
18%
NO means NO.
37
76%
Other (Please explain in post)
3
6%
 
Total votes: 49

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Hockey Widow
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Hockey Widow » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:07 pm

Betamax wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Florida owes us. Just imagine if we still had Luongo to trade. Luongo and the 6th for their 1st. Makes me sick.

Would I do the move. Maybe. I think in the final analysis if you think Reinhart is the real deal you gotta do the trade. Top 1st line centres don't grow on trees. But I think Florida would rather have a roster player or two plus the 6th. They want to make the playoffs and do some damage now that they have the prodigal son back. But in the end, yes I'd do the deal even though I voted no. I'm hedging my bets!
Horvat can also play wing and he's probably physically ready to take the next step and that would be appealing to add to their team where they already have two young top six centres with the Killer Bs'.

The key to whether GMJB makes the deal is whether they project Reinhart to be a true No.1 PPG+ offensive centre. If they feel he's just as likely to be the next Brendan Morrison, a solid second line centre, they should pass on the deal.

BTW, you have the ability to change your vote up until the morning before the day of the Draft if you're the flip flopping kinda poster. :mex:

I'm not flip flopping. I voted no but say yes. I have all options covered. Nothing to flip or flop about :mrgreen:

I think if Garrison would waive, and with Tallon saying he would move the first plus for top calibre type players, we could work something out surrounding Garrison. Rumour was his first choice was to stay a Panther but they, at the time, were not prepared to come up with the coin needed to keep him. I know he took less to come to Vancouver and is home again but who knows if he would waive. I hear not but what do I know. Perhaps Tanev plus plus might get in done.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by HockeyGeek » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:11 pm

I normally hate the idea of trading away prospects. Especially ones that come as highly regarded as Horvat. However, this franchise has had the spectre of mediocrity hanging over itself for a long long time. This team has a chance at a real fresh start. A bold move to have the 1st overall pick(something that we've acquired in the past but we've never actually stood at the podium to select 1st overall). I know it's a real crapshoot and having 1st overall doesn't mean a whole lot in reality(ahem, Edmonton). It is a powerful psychological message though. On one hand if Reinhart falters and doesn't pan out it could really spell disaster for a number of years. But if it works the Canucks could have a franchise centre. Someone who could be the face of the franchise for the next 10-15 years. Keeping Horvat and #6 is the safe bet. The more high-calibre prospects the better. But do people really think Horvat will be the face of the franchise 5 years from now? Shinkaruk? Kassian? We need an identity, and we honestly are the perfect situation for someone like Reinhart. Hometown boy joining a team that can shelter him for a few years behind Sedin and Kesler(or whomever they get back for him in a trade). I would try and keep Horvat and somehow acquire Reinhart. However if that isn't possible I would do trade Horvat in a heartbeat.

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Lancer » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:32 pm

If the options are:

Reinhart and Horvat; Reinhart; or Horvat and the #6 pick, then the one option you stop pursuing is Reinhart by his lonesome.

I wouldn't let a kid like Horvat go. You win playoff rounds with players like him.

As much as I share the consensus that Reinhart can be a 1st-line scoring centre, you have to ask yourself if he can be a generational talent a-la Toews, Crosby or Ovechkin - players who, when they were draft-eligible prospects, would have justified trading in a blue-chipper like Horvat in a package. I don't see it in the kid, as much as I like him as a prospect.

In terms of other prospects and players, I wouldn't say that many would be safe. Gaunce, Schroeder, Tanev - even Shinkaruk (who I think will open some eyes at Fall camp) would be acceptable sacrifices in a package for the #1 pick.

As for the NTC-holders, maybe Lou can do us a solid and play pitch-man so GMJB can deal one of them and get'er done. :lol:
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by SKYO » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:40 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I think if Garrison would waive, and with Tallon saying he would move the first plus for top calibre type players, we could work something out surrounding Garrison. Rumour was his first choice was to stay a Panther but they, at the time, were not prepared to come up with the coin needed to keep him. I know he took less to come to Vancouver and is home again but who knows if he would waive. I hear not but what do I know. Perhaps Tanev plus plus might get in done.
http://o.canada.com/sports/vancouver-ca ... -join-team

This is indeed true.

Image

There was mutual interest in Garrison wanting to re-sign in Florida,
but the Panthers couldn't afford what other teams could offer back then.

Image
Last edited by SKYO on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Topper » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:41 pm

Would you trade #6 and Horvat for Herberdeau?
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:55 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:
Betamax wrote: Of the four defensemen with NTCs', Garrison is the most likely to waive to go to FLA, (given that he previously played there). Bieksa is a Canucks for Life. IMO, It would take a lot of being thrown under the bus, or losing through multiple years for him to waive his NTC. :mex:
If Garrison enjoyed FLA so much why wouldn't he have just re-signed there?

Garrison lives in White Rock, he wants to be here.

Bieksa lives in Ontario.

I think if the Canucks are headed in a new direction Bieksa would be willing to waive. And then he signs with TO in a couple years to finish his career near home.
Thanks goes to Hockey Widow and SKYO, they've answered the Garrison part. I think Bieksa showed his true Canucks' colours when he was asked about his willingness to waive his NTC during the TDL. He said words to the effect of "going down with the sinking ship" ...

via: https://twitter.com/patersonjeff/status ... 5784046592
Jeff Paterson ‏@patersonjeff

Bieksa on 'down with the ship' comment: 'it means I'm a Canuck 'til the end. It's a metaphor. I don't think the ship is actually going down'

11:37 AM - 10 Mar 2014
I think Bieksa ends up retiring as a Canucks and then becomes an executive or coach with the team.

Also, HW can confirm or deny this but it was publicly reported that he moved from a condo to a house in Vancouver during the past couple of years. He also seems to spend as much if not more time Vancouver than in Ontario during the off-season. :mex:

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:58 pm

Betamax wrote:The key to whether GMJB makes the deal is whether they project Reinhart to be a true No.1 PPG+ offensive centre. If they feel he's just as likely to be the next Brendan Morrison, a solid second line centre, they should pass on the deal.
Lancer wrote:As much as I share the consensus that Reinhart can be a 1st-line scoring centre, you have to ask yourself if he can be a generational talent a-la Toews, Crosby or Ovechkin - players who, when they were draft-eligible prospects, would have justified trading in a blue-chipper like Horvat in a package. I don't see it in the kid, as much as I like him as a prospect.

Good point. For this draft, I don't think there is a clear #1, but the top 3 seem to be Eckblad, Bennett and Reinhart. Not sure we should be offering that much for Reinhart considering he may drop to #3.

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:03 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
Betamax wrote:The key to whether GMJB makes the deal is whether they project Reinhart to be a true No.1 PPG+ offensive centre. If they feel he's just as likely to be the next Brendan Morrison, a solid second line centre, they should pass on the deal.
Good point. For this draft, I don't think there is a clear #1, but the top 3 seem to be Eckblad, Bennett and Reinhart. Not sure we should be offering that much for Reinhart considering he may drop to #3.
How many opportunties has the Canucks had to use a top 3 draft pick and have the opportunity to (a good chance to be) a No.1 centre in the modern era? Twice that I can recall, in 1990 and 1999.

Although 1990 didn't turn out as expected, at least he was traded for assets that help them play in the 1994 SCF Finals and we know the story of 1999. :mex:

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Hockey Widow » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:07 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:
Betamax wrote: Of the four defensemen with NTCs', Garrison is the most likely to waive to go to FLA, (given that he previously played there). Bieksa is a Canucks for Life. IMO, It would take a lot of being thrown under the bus, or losing through multiple years for him to waive his NTC. :mex:
If Garrison enjoyed FLA so much why wouldn't he have just re-signed there?

Garrison lives in White Rock, he wants to be here.

Bieksa lives in Ontario.

I think if the Canucks are headed in a new direction Bieksa would be willing to waive. And then he signs with TO in a couple years to finish his career near home.
At the time the ownership in Florida was not prepared to spend past the cap floor. Garrison had to leave if he wanted his payday.

Bieksa has said he will not waive, he is going down with the ship.

Ps

Widow has no idea where Bieksa lives.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:17 pm

Betamax wrote:
How many opportunties has the Canucks had to use a top 3 draft pick and have the opportunity to (a good chance to be) a No.1 centre in the modern era? Twice that I can recall, in 1990 and 1999.

Although 1990 didn't turn out as expected, at least he was traded for assets that help them play in the 1994 SCF Finals and we know the story of 1999. :mex:
Yeah, the guy in 1990 had a nice NHL career though, although not sure he was a true #1 centre. The guy in 1999 is probably the best centre to ever play for our team, was a very consistent producer in his prime and had 2 elite superstar years.

We did still get a couple pretty good centres later in the 1st rounds though. We got that guy in 23rd overall in 2003, although not a #1 centre still one of the top 2 way players in the game. Our last GM also got a guy 10th overall in 2008 who he flipped for a young power forward; I think both of them will have nice NHL careers.

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:30 pm

via: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nh ... s/9886755/

Kyle Woodlief, special for USA TODAY Sports 9:13 p.m. EDT June 2, 2014
Sam Reinhart is next up on Red Line's board, and his explosive shot release and phenomenal hockey IQ give him an outstanding offensive upside. He should become the best goal scorer of the top group and has the type of lightning release that can fool even world-class netminders. His skating is just average, but he makes up for that with his off-the-charts anticipation.
Rated as the no. 2 forward available behind the other Sam. A goal scoring centre with high hockey IQ and a RHS. Sounds good to me. :mex:

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Aaronp18 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:34 pm

If Garrison is willing to head back to FLA then make him a part of the package. I didn't recall him wanting to sign back in FLA.

6th, Garrison & pieces for the 1st overall, Petrovic and pieces.

I'm sold on trying to acquire Reinhart! Bring in the western Canadian kids.

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Lancer » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:39 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:If Garrison is willing to head back to FLA then make him a part of the package. I didn't recall him wanting to sign back in FLA.

6th, Garrison & pieces for the 1st overall, Petrovic and pieces.

I'm sold on trying to acquire Reinhart! Bring in the western Canadian kids.
Much as Petrovic intrigues me as a prospect, even if he was left out of the equation and that's what it was, steep price but I'd do it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see him in Canuck silks but there is a price point on him.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:01 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:If Garrison is willing to head back to FLA then make him a part of the package. I didn't recall him wanting to sign back in FLA.

6th, Garrison & pieces for the 1st overall, Petrovic and pieces.


I'm sold on trying to acquire Reinhart! Bring in the western Canadian kids.
Look, if that was all it took to acquire the 1st overall AND Petrovic ................ then I'm like a shaking weight challenged kid knowing he's going to an AYCE restaurant on the deal:

Image

However, the Canucks are probably competing with several other teams that want the No. 1 pick so I'm pretty sure it will take more than that. If Horvat is the deal breaker ....... then either GMJB steps up or not.

Look, a while back I was completely opposed to trading Horvat (or Shinkaruk for that matter) in a package with the 6th to move up, but the more I think of it ............. if they believe The Son of Paul can and more importantly will be a No. 1 (and not No. 2) centre, moving forward ... I think they need to take the risk. :mex:

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Hockey Widow » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:15 pm

^^^
That was my initial assessment as well. Too much to trade to move up to top spot. But, and that is the real but, if he is a true number 1centre you have got to roll the dice. Problem is we don't know if he is and it may take a few years to find out. It would be easier if he was a Crosby type but then again if he was a sure fire franchise player Florida would not be entertaining the idea.


Maybe that in and of itself speaks volumes. If you can't do a deal with Florida do you try to do the deal with Buffalo?
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