If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would ya?

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If trading Horvat + 6th pick was the only way to acquire the 2014 1st pick, would ya do it?

Poll ended at Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:43 am

YES! YES! YES!
9
18%
NO means NO.
37
76%
Other (Please explain in post)
3
6%
 
Total votes : 49

If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would ya?

Postby Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:43 am

Back due to public demand, Betamax proudly presents another thought provoking Corner Poll.

This was tweeted yesterday, by TEAM Radio's Prattman:

Betamax wrote:From The Prattman .....

via: https://twitter.com/DavePratt1040/statu ... 1488126976

Dave Pratt ‏@DavePratt1040

Florida now said to be offering first pick over all to Canucks for their 6th over all and Bo Horvat.. This time tell Dale Tallon...No thanks

4:26 PM - 10 Jun 2014


So who here agrees with The Prattman? :mex:


Contrasted by an article that appeared on the Canucks' Army website that presents a statistical argument that the Canucks' should aggressively pursue the Son of Paul.

Betamax wrote:Article on why the Canucks' should aggressively pursue the No. 1 pick,

Who Should Vancouver Draft? Spoiler: It's Sam Reinhart
That's Offside!
June 10 2014 10:38AM

via: http://canucksarmy.com/2014/6/10/who-sh ... m-reinhart

The article makes an argument on why the Canucks should trade their 6th overall and their (alleged) top prospect, Horvat to move up to no. 1 and draft Sam Reinhart by concluding:

Given the average value of the 1st, 6th, and 9th overall picks, as well as how Sam Reinhart compares to his recent peers, Vancouver should absolutely pursue the chance to acquire the 1st overall pick should the opportunity present itself.


Now, who here is now down what that? :mex:


So, are you on TEAM Prattman on this issue or do you side with Canucks' Army?


What say you? :mex:
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:53 am

Nope.

I would not move Horvat or Kassian in under almost any circumstance.

Yesterday, in another thread, I also included Shinkaruk, Gaunce, and Jensen in my "untouchable" list, but I have since backed off from that.

If it takes our 1st + (Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Jensen, or Edler............or any 2 of these 4 along with our 1st) to acquire the 2014 first overall pick, then I'd do it.

I do NOT like the idea of moving Horvat however. I think he will be of the Ryan Kesler/Mike Richards/Patrice Bergeron mold. At worst, he'll be a Mike Peca/Shane Doan type guy in my opinion (i.e. hard-working offensively limited, but loaded with major character).

Keep Horvat. Keep Kassian.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:57 am

Here's a question that I do have:

If you do Bo Horvat + 6th overall for Sam Reinhart, then yes,................the Canucks would very likely have a future #1 franchise center on their hands in Reinhart.

However - if the Canucks were to go this route, then they would need a guy like Brendan Gaunce or Dane Fox to be their future #2 center.........and a good number two center at that.

Do you see Gaunce or Fox ever being "that guy?"
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:59 am

The Brown Knight wrote:Nope.

I would not move Horvat or Kassian in under almost any circumstance.

Yesterday, in another thread, I also included Shinkaruk, Gaunce, and Jensen in my "untouchable" list, but I have since backed off from that.

If it takes our 1st + (Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Jensen, or Edler............or any 2 of these 4 along with our 1st) to acquire the 2014 first overall pick, then I'd do it.

I do NOT like the idea of moving Horvat however. I think he will be of the Ryan Kesler/Mike Richards/Patrice Bergeron mold. At worst, he'll be a Mike Peca/Shane Doan type guy in my opinion (i.e. hard-working offensively limited, but loaded with major character).

Keep Horvat. Keep Kassian.


I'm down with keeping Kassian and Tanev as the roster players' I'd least want to trade. Of the prospects, I rate Shinkaruk higher than Horvat.

Initially, I wasn't that thrilled with the idea of giving up Horvat and 6th for the Son of Paul but I'm not sure if Horvat as good as what the Canucks' fanboys on social media has been positioning him to be.

So, right now, I think I'd do it, unless someone between now and the draft can actually provide a compelling argument that the risk/rewards makes it a sub-optimal move. :mex:
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:06 am

Betamax wrote:
I'm down with keeping Kassian and Tanev as the roster players' I'd least want to trade. Of the prospects, I rate Shinkaruk higher than Horvat.

Initially, I wasn't that thrilled with the idea of giving up Horvat and 6th for the Son of Paul but I'm not sure if Horvat as good as what the Canucks' fanboys on social media has been positioning him to be.

So, right now, I think I'd do it, unless someone between now and the draft can actually provide a compelling argument that the risk/rewards makes it a sub-optimal move. :mex:


Yeah, I've actually been thinking about this for the past 10 minutes or so, and the idea of getting Sam Reinhart is starting to sound more appealing (even if it's at the expense of Horvat I guess).

Franchise centers do not grow on trees. Horvat likely won't be good enough to be a viable 'heir apparent' to Henrik, but Sam Reinhart has a much better shot in my opinion.

If the Canucks trade Horvat + 6th overall for Sam Reinhart, then I am open to the idea of the Canucks trading Ryan Kesler to Philadelphia for Brayden Schenn (or even both Schenn brothers if that's a fair deal). That way, the Canucks have a future #1 AND #2 center in Reinhart and B.Schenn.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby nuckster » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:21 am

Yes I would - no balls, no glory.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Canuck-One » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:51 am

No. Trade Kesler to Anaheim for Bonino and the 10th overall and draft Nylander and Vertanin. Naslund thinks Nylander is the real deal and potentially he could have Vertanin on one wing and Kassian on the other.

Vertanin - Nylander - Kassian
Shinkaruk - Bonino - Jensen
Matthias - Horvat - Gaunce

This looks like a great start to a new era for me. If you can't get Bonino take Etem.

Vertanin - Nylander - Kassian
Shinkaruk - Horvat - Jensen
Etem - Matthias - Gaunce

Either line up works for me.
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Change of Heart

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:00 am

I've had a change of heart........quite drastically actually.

Yes - I would do Bo Horvat + 6th overall pick for Sam Reinhart.

Reinhart is the real deal, and franchise centers don't go on trees.

Would suck big time to lose Horvat, but finding/drafting/acquiring 2nd line centers isn't too difficult of a task. In our case, this could involve hoping for the best in a guy like Gaunce or Dane Fox, or simply trading for a guy like Brayden Schenn.

After studying the results of the past 10 first overall picks, only Erik Johnson and Nail Yakupov have failed to live up to expectations (and in Johnson's case, it was a result of a knee injury and he seems to be getting back on track........Yakupov is still young enough to turn the ship around).

Reinhart was born and raised in Vancouver, and already has connections to Benning and Linden via Paul Reinhart.

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea of getting Reinhart even if it's at the expense of Horvat.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby ESQ » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:10 am

Does Reinhart crack the roster in 2014-15? He's only 2 months younger than Nathan MacKinnon, 6'1 186 lbs.

With the delayed deadline for season-ticket renewals from TL, you gotta think they're looking for a big splash like this prior to the draft, and counting on it to sell some season tickets.

Man its a tough call - the two highest draft picks the Canucks have had in the last 15 years for the franchise's first ever 1st overall. What a way for JB to put his stamp on the franchise!
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby vic » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:18 am

It's has to be a 3-way deal

Kelser to ANA for 2 prospects + 10th

The 6th + 10th + 1 of those prospects to FLA for the 1st

ANA gets Kesler
VAN keeps one prospects from ANA plus gets Reinhart
FLA gets two top 10 picks plus a prospect
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby herb » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:31 am

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:37 am

The Brown Knight wrote:Here's a question that I do have:

If you do Bo Horvat + 6th overall for Sam Reinhart, then yes,................the Canucks would very likely have a future #1 franchise center on their hands in Reinhart.

However - if the Canucks were to go this route, then they would need a guy like Brendan Gaunce or Dane Fox to be their future #2 center.........and a good number two center at that.

Do you see Gaunce or Fox ever being "that guy?"


Actually, no they don't. That's where the Kesler trade comes in. They send him to the Flyers and in a package get back B. Schenn to be their future No. 2 centre or a (comparable quality player). :mex:
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby SKYO » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:43 am

The Brown Knight wrote:Here's a question that I do have:

If you do Bo Horvat + 6th overall for Sam Reinhart, then yes,................the Canucks would very likely have a future #1 franchise center on their hands in Reinhart.

However - if the Canucks were to go this route, then they would need a guy like Brendan Gaunce or Dane Fox to be their future #2 center.........and a good number two center at that.

Do you see Gaunce or Fox ever being "that guy?"


You forgot Cole Cassels who has a rising point production game to add to his solid two way ability.
2014 regular season - 61gp 24g 49a 73pts +7
2014 playoffs - 12gp 6g 11a 17pts

Talent Analysis

While he may not be the flashiest player in the Canucks prospect system, his two way, defense-oriented game has a certain luster. Still a few years away, Cassels has proven he can be thrust into a number of different situations with success. Above-average in the faceoff circle, responsible on the penalty kill, and he is a solid shot-blocker. Though somewhat slight of frame, he hits regularly. He has a pass-first mentality (much like his father, Andrew, did) and that is demonstrated in his assist statistics. There are differing opinions on his offensive upside.


Future

It is expected that Cassels will return to the Oshawa Generals for his third season with the club. There, he will be able to further refine his game, which has a definite defense-first aura surrounding it. But make no mistake, Cassels can target teammates with the puck and find them, as well. There should be ample opportunity and ice time for Cassels to continue improving his game, with his goal ultimately to earn a pro contract and move up to the AHL.


Cassels is bonafide #2 center imo and Gaunce 3rd line center, Fox can be the utility guy, can play wing/center when needed.

Ultimately this helps sway the decision to yes I would certainly trade our 1st + BoHo for a certified #1 center in Reinhart, it almost seems inevitable.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Aaronp18 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:55 am

Florida needs roster players now!

Which is why they are willing to part with the 1st overall. They won't want 2 picks in this years draft and more prospects. The Canucks will have to part with someone (or two) on the roster and likely the 6th pick.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:59 am

Aaronp18 wrote:Florida needs roster players now!

Which is why they are willing to part with the 1st overall. They won't want 2 picks in this years draft and more prospects. The Canucks will have to part with someone (or two) on the roster and likely the 6th pick.


duh, it could be an expanded mega deal with the Canucks trading their 6th, Horvat and Garrison (for example), for their 1st and a prospect like Petrovic. :mex:
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