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Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:05 pm
by Betamax
Hockey Widow wrote:
Betamax wrote:So, yesterday on the Moj Show on TEAM Radio, he relayed a little anecdote on how Torts treated some of his players. Now it's been widely reported that Torts berated Booth for being late for a team meeting when he was was on time.

But the Moj told of another alleged incident where I've never heard reported where Booth along with Weise were the outcasts in Torts' mind. Apparently after the Canucks had their meltdown against the NYI and let in not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six but seven goals in the 3rd period last season, apparently Torts text messaged everyone of their players but the two aforementioned to give them some sort of positive message.

:hmmm:
Haven't heard that one but it would not surprise me if true. I do know, pretty certain anyway, that Weise detested Torts. He wasn't shy about saying so either. Past history there too. Weise wanted out and Torts wanted him gone. Torts is a throw back to a coach who needs a few public whipping boys, uses it as motivation, or so the theory goes, for the rest of the team. School of tough love, hard Knox and all of that.

There were early times where I felt pleasantly surprised by Torts but for me the end came during that fiasco of a road trip to California. The team played with no focus or discipline and tried to be tough guys. Totally lost their game during that trip and never got it back. Only to be followed up with the Calgary game fiasco. The season was lost right there.

MG should have fired Torts right then and there.
I think it's safe to say that delay, delay, delay when it came to making the tough decisions became symbolic of the latter half of the Michael D. Gillis' era. But you have to speculate with four years remaining, did he have the authority from ownership to pull such a move and therefore was told to wait it out for that miracle turnaround that, duh, never happened. :mex:

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:24 pm
by mathonwy
Betamax wrote:So, yesterday on the Moj Show on TEAM Radio, he relayed a little anecdote on how Torts treated some of his players. Now it's been widely reported that Torts berated Booth for being late for a team meeting when he was was on time.

But the Moj told of another alleged incident where I've never heard reported where Booth along with Weise were the outcasts in Torts' mind. Apparently after the Canucks had their meltdown against the NYI and let in not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six but seven goals in the 3rd period last season, apparently Torts text messaged everyone of their players but the two aforementioned to give them some sort of positive message.

:hmmm:
This shouldn't surprise anyone. The David Booth trade may have been the most harmful long term influence on the Canucks in the past few years but Torts was the absolutely the most harmful short term influence on the team.

Torts screwed up our team on so many levels that it isn't even funny and I was quite anxious that it took Trevor so long to make his decision to can his ass.

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:28 am
by Meds
mathonwy wrote: This shouldn't surprise anyone. The David Booth trade may have been the most harmful long term influence on the Canucks in the past few years but Torts was the absolutely the most harmful short term influence on the team.
Ummmm.....how do you figure?

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:01 am
by The Brown Wizard
Gonna miss Boothy and the rage he inspired...

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:30 am
by Betamax
mathonwy wrote:This shouldn't surprise anyone. The David Booth trade may have been the most harmful long term influence on the Canucks in the past few years but Torts was the absolutely the most harmful short term influence on the team.
duh, I would suggest that the mis-handling of the goalie situations was the most "harmful influence" to the Canucks, the past few years. Trying to wait things out turned out in hopes to get "full value" for either goalie turned out to be a gong show.
Torts screwed up our team on so many levels that it isn't even funny and I was quite anxious that it took Trevor so long to make his decision to can his ass.
Well, I think it had more to do with optics on the delaying the decision to drop the axe on Torts. I mean if he did it asap he became Prez ......... then it would look like he made the decision in haste rather than doing his due diligence. If you look at the NW interview with Linden and his mentor Quinn and how they perceived how the team was coached, it's pretty clear that they were eventually going to put that dog to sleep so to write ............. :mex:

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:29 pm
by Hockey Widow
A little over dramatic on the Booth trade.

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:01 pm
by Betamax
Hockey Widow wrote:A little over dramatic on the Booth trade.
Maybe he, duh, actually meant semi-harmful. :mex:

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:04 pm
by SKYO
mathonwy wrote:
This shouldn't surprise anyone. The David Booth trade may have been the most harmful long term influence on the Canucks in the past few years but Torts was the absolutely the most harmful short term influence on the team.
Torts was a god send, as it finally got the team a whole new regime change!!!! lol :thumbs:

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:08 pm
by mathonwy
Meds wrote:
mathonwy wrote: This shouldn't surprise anyone. The David Booth trade may have been the most harmful long term influence on the Canucks in the past few years but Torts was the absolutely the most harmful short term influence on the team.
Ummmm.....how do you figure?
Which part?

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:21 pm
by Meds
mathonwy wrote:
Meds wrote:
mathonwy wrote: This shouldn't surprise anyone. The David Booth trade may have been the most harmful long term influence on the Canucks in the past few years but Torts was the absolutely the most harmful short term influence on the team.
Ummmm.....how do you figure?
Which part?
I mean the harmful long term influence part.

The guy was on IR for probably 2/3's his time in Van.

I'm not saying he was a benefit to the club, but how was he harmful.

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:39 pm
by mathonwy
Betamax wrote:
mathonwy wrote:This shouldn't surprise anyone. The David Booth trade may have been the most harmful long term influence on the Canucks in the past few years but Torts was the absolutely the most harmful short term influence on the team.
duh, I would suggest that the mis-handling of the goalie situations was the most "harmful influence" to the Canucks, the past few years. Trying to wait things out turned out in hopes to get "full value" for either goalie turned out to be a gong show.
The mishandling of the goalie situation was indeed a cluster in of itself but lucky for us, Luo was the consummate professional throughout the entire situation. As was Schneid and as well as Lack at the end. No matter how much Gillis et al. messed around with the goaltending position, we were never without solid goaltending.

As opposed to the commitment of 4.25M to David Booth for 4 years which handcuffed the Canucks in terms of getting that elusive 2nd line support. We haven't had a real 2nd line since the 2010/11 season and I am of the position that our lack of a second line has led to a lot of the bad things that have happened to the Canucks. The overplaying of the Sedins and Kesler last season, the departure of Kesler, the decline of Jannik Hansen, our general lack of scoring, the decline of the BC bear population, etc. It was a very high risk move by Gillis to trade and commit to a reclamation project for such a long term as once we had Booth, there was nothing anyone could do but hope he get better (or buy him out which is of course what eventually happened).

It's one thing to spend 4.2M on Keith Ballard when you have a deep defensive prospect pool but its a completely different thing to spend 4.25M on David Booth when your forward prospect pool is NIL. You're going all in (IE committing 2nd line money and crazy term) on a weird dude.
Torts screwed up our team on so many levels that it isn't even funny and I was quite anxious that it took Trevor so long to make his decision to can his ass.
Betamax wrote: Well, I think it had more to do with optics on the delaying the decision to drop the axe on Torts. I mean if he did it asap he became Prez ......... then it would look like he made the decision in haste rather than doing his due diligence. If you look at the NW interview with Linden and his mentor Quinn and how they perceived how the team was coached, it's pretty clear that they were eventually going to put that dog to sleep so to write ............. :mex:

I probably would have developed an ulcer if Torts was still around for next season. :P

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:53 pm
by mathonwy
Meds wrote:
I mean the harmful long term influence part.

The guy was on IR for probably 2/3's his time in Van.

I'm not saying he was a benefit to the club, but how was he harmful.
His lack of production combined with his occupation of 4.25M cap space was the reason why I termed it most harmful long term influence.

In terms of playing style, the guy is a bulldozer. David Booth is not a finesse player and one could argue (just like Ryan Kesler) that his playing style is conducive to being injured.

However, regardless of whether he was on the ice or not, the fact that he occupied (from a cap point of view) one of the top 6 positions led to many negative ripple effects.

Just my opinion and I stated it to get some feedback on it.

Re: All-Encompassing Coaching/Shot Blocking Discussion!!!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:05 pm
by Meds
Well, when he was on LTIR his cap hit wasn't much of an issue.

We were in lockout mode for half of one season.

His production could have been better, but I thought that when he was healthy we had a decent player in him.

He was overpaid by at least $1M when healthy though. I think that had we iced the 2010-11 team and inserted Booth over another forward, things would have turned out different for him here in Van.