Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby herb » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:59 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Pronger must be living the dream right now, collecting some pretty fine grease off ole Snyder there while not having to put up with rigors of travel, training, practice etc. Probably slaying X-box all day long on his expensive couch in his expensive media room


I'm guessing you have never had a concussion...
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Per » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:45 pm

herb wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Pronger must be living the dream right now, collecting some pretty fine grease off ole Snyder there while not having to put up with rigors of travel, training, practice etc. Probably slaying X-box all day long on his expensive couch in his expensive media room


I'm guessing you have never had a concussion...

I agree. A girl at work is married to a former hockey player (SHL+DEL, has won a German championship with Frankfurt) who had his career cut short by two concussions within a short time. The second is mindboggling... Hit from behind by a team mate during a scrimmage while he was still not cleared to play.... What an idiot! I mean, he wasn't cleared for full contact yet, but had started practicing with the team and a guy hits him from behind into the boards... After that he barely made it out of bed for two years. Constant headache. Couldn't focus. Couldn't work or study or anything. Troubled by light. Troubled by sounds. Troubled by motion sickness. Thankfully he has regained his health now. The pension checks from German/Swedish hockey are not that fat, so he went back to complete high school, then went to college and now actually has a law degree. Impressive, imho, but the gist of what I'm saying is that recovering from a severe concussion is not my idea of having a swell time. No matter how rich you are.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby BurningBeard » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:54 pm

herb wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Pronger must be living the dream right now, collecting some pretty fine grease off ole Snyder there while not having to put up with rigors of travel, training, practice etc. Probably slaying X-box all day long on his expensive couch in his expensive media room

I'm guessing you have never had a concussion...

At this point an insurance company is paying his multi-million dollar salary, and not the Flyers. For that reason alone you can assume his injury is legit and indisputable.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby dbr » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:42 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:Yeah. I would imagine if the Flyers had the ability to cut Pronger due to his inability to play, he would be back in uniform at some point. For the record, my problem is not with Pronger, it's the system. The guy admits he won't play anymore, to me that means he is retired. Good for him for getting paid for doing nothing, or being a "scout", but IMO there should be a mechanism in place where he needs to continuously strive to return to health in order to maintain his status as an "active" NHLer.


I don't know the minutiae of Pronger's health situation but you have to wonder if he comes back from the types of concussion problems he's had.. is that best for anyone? Does anyone think his post concussion issues are anything other than a complete quagmire (and that forcing a guy back into action is if anything, possibly exposing oneself to legal liability)?

The other thing is, if this was a knee injury, would it still be the same scenario? We all know how unpredictable head injuries are, but if this was a recurring knee injury, and doctors told him he'd never play again, would he still be able to say he's an "active" player because he goes for a jog every 2 days?


Well, look at Matthias Ohlund. Has all but admitted he'll never play again due to his knees but he is still collecting a paycheque from the Bolts (or their insurer, I guess).

And good on him.

Like I said, teams fall all over themselves to give money and term to these guys.. hardly seems fair to pull the rug out from under them once their bodies finally give out.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Mondi » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:47 am

The problem with stating that because an insurance company is covering Pronger's salary and therefore his injury is real is that a lot of mTBI's are difficult to detect on scans such as MRI and CT. In fact, the diagnosis often comes down to neurological testing and the injure person's self-reporting.

While I am not a doctor (nor close), I'd be willing to bet that individuals have fooled the system in the past.

Not saying Pronger is, nor is it likely. But, it's at least possible given the circumstances around the cap.

But the thread is derailed. The issue originally was would fans prefer a complete rebuild or another attempt to build around Kesler, Sedins, Bieksa, Hamhuis and the young-ins.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby herb » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:07 am

BurningBeard wrote:At this point an insurance company is paying his multi-million dollar salary, and not the Flyers. For that reason alone you can assume his injury is legit and indisputable.


True dat. The insurance pukes will be following up regularly to ensure Pronger's issues are legit.

Pro athletes are some of the most competitive people on the planet, and Chris Pronger is or was at the top of that heap. It's highly unlikely that somebody as high profile and competitive as Pronger would want to be undone by something like a concussion, especially after he has made $100M+.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby herb » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:10 am

Mondi wrote:The problem with stating that because an insurance company is covering Pronger's salary and therefore his injury is real is that a lot of mTBI's are difficult to detect on scans such as MRI and CT. In fact, the diagnosis often comes down to neurological testing and the injure person's self-reporting.


A MRI or CT scan won't show anything unless there is bleeding or significant swelling, which are of concern in the first 48 hours or so after the injury.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Meds » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:37 am

Mondi wrote:But the thread is derailed. The issue originally was would fans prefer a complete rebuild or another attempt to build around Kesler, Sedins, Bieksa, Hamhuis and the young-ins.


I would say that we are locked into the latter plan.

Hank
Dank
Kes
Bur
Juice
Hamhuis

That's our core. Like it or not, they are the guys who have NTC's and have been the nucleus of this team for a long while. Granted, Hamhuis has only been here for 4 seasons. Edler might need to be on this list, but I can't get over my bias, and there are a couple of other names that could fit on that list, but as Torts said, the core needs to change.

IMHO, those six guys are fine as a core that Linden/New GM augments and builds around with players who can both support, and succeed, them in a few years. If those players can bounce back, as many of you think, then it is the guys like Higgins, Hansen, Edler, and maybe even Garrison, that need to go and be replaced with some youth and, if possible, one experienced top-6 forward.....and a top-6 defenseman if need be.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Per » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:34 pm

I've stated it before, and I'll state it again. This team is only three pieces shy of being a legitimate contender.

What do we need?
1) A goal scorer to play with the Sedins. Could actually be Burrows, if he can return to form. He and Carter are probably the ones who have worked best on that line for the Canucks. If we could somehow get Loui Eriksson, who plays with them on the national team, it'd be a godsend, but sadly that's not going to happen.

2) A new centre for one of the two top lines. Let Kessler get another Selke on the third line, or play as a winger with the Sedins.

3) And most importantly, a power play quarter back. The main difference between the team this season and the team that was one game shy of winning the cup is the power play. In 2011 it was the best there was in the league. Three years later it's a disaster. If we can fix this we can win the cup.

Goal tending? Not a problem. Sure, the current tandem is not the Luongo/Schneider combo we once had, but Läck had a damn good rookie season and will come back better and stronger next year. His stint with the Three Crowns at the world championship this spring will help boost his self esteem as well. Markström has tons of talent and will sooner or later start delivering on his promises. They are not top notch, but they are a helluva lot better than what we had during the Cloutier years or before that. Good enough to help us win a cup if only the team in front of them can start figuring out how to score goals.

Plenty of promising players on the farm. I believe this team has a bright future if only we could find the three pieces I said. Sure, it won't be easy, but with the cap space freed up by switching to the current goalies, it should have gotten easier than it was before.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Betamax » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:06 pm

Per wrote:I've stated it before, and I'll state it again. This team is only three pieces shy of being a legitimate contender.

What do we need?
1) A goal scorer to play with the Sedins. Could actually be Burrows, if he can return to form. He and Carter are probably the ones who have worked best on that line for the Canucks. If we could somehow get Loui Eriksson, who plays with them on the national team, it'd be a godsend, but sadly that's not going to happen.

2) A new centre for one of the two top lines. Let Kessler get another Selke on the third line, or play as a winger with the Sedins.

3) And most importantly, a power play quarter back. The main difference between the team this season and the team that was one game shy of winning the cup is the power play. In 2011 it was the best there was in the league. Three years later it's a disaster. If we can fix this we can win the cup.

Goal tending? Not a problem. Sure, the current tandem is not the Luongo/Schneider combo we once had, but Läck had a damn good rookie season and will come back better and stronger next year. His stint with the Three Crowns at the world championship this spring will help boost his self esteem as well. Markström has tons of talent and will sooner or later start delivering on his promises. They are not top notch, but they are a helluva lot better than what we had during the Cloutier years or before that. Good enough to help us win a cup if only the team in front of them can start figuring out how to score goals.

Plenty of promising players on the farm. I believe this team has a bright future if only we could find the three pieces I said. Sure, it won't be easy, but with the cap space freed up by switching to the current goalies, it should have gotten easier than it was before.


I think the legit SC contender days for this current core is over without a significant makeover. In other words, if the Sedins are your best and most important players on the roster, I don't see the team being a "legitimate" contender.

You tell me, in the past two decades (the standard my cybro bro, dave likes to use), name me a SC Championship team where their best players were led by guys close to their mid-30s. 8-)
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Mondi » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:19 pm

Easy, never.

The sooner Linder and the Aqulini's let go of the Sedins the better. They had a great run, but they are now first liners on a loser, a wicked second liners on winner. Or 1A and 1B, whatever.
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