Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby ukcanuck » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:28 am

Maybe it's me. But the UFA marKet is slim pickings this year so buying out the devil we know for one we don't know...that could be not such a smart plan.

I still think we need a power play QB style defenceman and a playmaking winger for Kesler (assuming he stays)


What I'm reading others saying, makes sense to me.

Might as well keep Booth's rights for the by out cost.
Burrows is a candidate to buy out, but gotta weigh the savings versus continuity. burrows has been a good soldier and left money on the table to help the team...at some point you gotta show there is a reason to love the franchise and have guys you can trot out in the sixties as lifers..

We got Jensen to ride wing and spell off burrows

Bottom six looks pretty solid with Richardson, kassian (who could bump up to second Mattias, Santo, Sestito,
et al

Then there is Horvat and Shinkaruk to spot in...

I don't think I'd bother using the buy out....


Hindsight....maybe they should have bought out luongo... Too bad..

The one remaining gniggler though.. If aqualinguini forbade GMMG to trade luongo with salary coming back..
Why did we take back salary and cap recapture in the end anyway?

That recapture rule is a joke btw, luongo's should have grandfathered and GMMG and linguinis should have be screaming the injustice the short fat, rat faced, cannniving New York lawyfucker loud and clear.

I guess there is no way to launch a lawsuit against the league. Too bad.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby rikster » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:29 am

The only way it makes sense to buy anybody out is if the team plans on operating at the cap maximum next season.


I agree with those who have pointed out that a younger roster means a cheaper roster, so no need to fret about being cap compliant like some in the media are suggesting...For me it would be an embarrassment to be worrying about our cap situation and not being a Cup contender...

If the team does a 180, then I can see them taking on salary near the first or second deadline, but not to start the season....

For those who are suggesting player buyouts, I'd put the check books away and consider this season a mulligan under bad coaching decisions...

For those who are fretting about Luongo's possible cap recapture costs, my guess is that it gets forgotten if and when that day happens or is formally reversed much like the league changed its mind almost 4 years after levelling penalties against the Devils...

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/20 ... ersal.html

I think we all agree that the Linden hire was in part a PR move for the franchise, but I think it was also a PR move to get back into the leagues good books, especially considering that the person they hired was very instrumental in helping the league reach an agreement with the players two lockouts ago...

Take care...
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby ClamRussel » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:29 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:It's not "stoopid", it frees us of a bad contract. You're going on the assumption Edler is traded. We have a changing of the guard so the Gillis plan is over. A new coach = a new system. If Edler gets back on track he is a superior blue liner to Garrison. Right now his value is low & I don't see Linden giving up on him. With Tanev in the top 4 and due for a raise it doesn't make sense to be paying your #5 spot $4-5M. Buying out a player immediately gives us more UFA play money. If we trade Edler & don't bring back a top 4 D then obviously it makes sense to keep Garrison.


Do you honestly feel a guy like Garrison (assuming he'd waive) wouldn't have a trade market? I think a 30+ point dman with a cannon shot on a reasonable deal for the next 4 seasons would have a market.

He was our best d-man for almost half the season, I don't think he's a buyout candidate, nor is he someone we need to forcibly trade.


Did you see his performance in the 2nd half? Like I said earlier, hopefully it's injury related. The one season that landed him this contract was a good first half in Florida. From what I've seen on the ice I don't find it a reasonable deal at $4.6M cap hit. I'm not against Garrison, I just think he'll be in the conversation when topic of buyout comes up (as will Booth & Burrows). Mostly because that cap hit lasts for 4 more years, I know I'd expect more for the $6.5M he was paid. Booth might dodge the bullet because he's only got one year remaining. It's entirely possible no one gets bought out in the end.

Everyone will & should be under scrutiny.

In hindsight, considering the return we got, and the loss of Schneider, should the buyout have been used on Lu?
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Mondi » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:31 am

I'd wager 1000s that Burrows will not be bought out.

Such a home town favourite. Played on a discounted contract for years.

Would be a bad PR move, and we've seen how FA is not adverse to doing things for PR purposes.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby SKYO » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:54 am

Mondi wrote:I'd wager 1000s that Burrows will not be bought out.

Such a home town favourite. Played on a discounted contract for years.

Would be a bad PR move, and we've seen how FA is not adverse to doing things for PR purposes.


Agreed, Booth in all likelihood will be bought out, its the cheapest and best solution for the Aquabros at that, plus it frees up some good cap space to bring in a couple good UFA's.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Island Nucklehead » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:29 pm

ClamRussel wrote: I'm not against Garrison, I just think he'll be in the conversation when topic of buyout comes up (as will Booth & Burrows). Mostly because that cap hit lasts for 4 more years, I know I'd expect more for the $6.5M he was paid. Booth might dodge the bullet because he's only got one year remaining. It's entirely possible no one gets bought out in the end.

Everyone will & should be under scrutiny.

In hindsight, considering the return we got, and the loss of Schneider, should the buyout have been used on Lu?


Only 15 players have been bought out using the compliance buyout. Montador, Olesz, Colaiacovo, Gilbert, Gomez, Kaberle, Hedberg, DiPietro, Redden, Briere, Bryzgalov, Lecavalier, Komisarek, Grabovski, and Schultz. I don't know that I would lump Garrison into that category of player having a ridiculous contract, or being a serious under performer. Booth certainly fits that mould, Burrows was looking like he could also, but seemed to turn it around near the end.

I think Doc has pointed out how the Luongo contract could come back to bite us in the future, so maybe it should have been used on him. Conversely, if he really thought his "contract sucks" maybe there should have been greater exploration into possibly voiding it.

I still feel Booth should be the guy bought out. It doesn't bode well for the team identity that you should be able to coast through several seasons of shitty play, and dodge a buyout because you "only have one year left" or played marginally better over 20 games where the team was still losing. If we're serious about holding people accountable, Booth should go because he's been garbage for the majority of his time here and he has absolutely no trade value.

If Booth is bought out, the Canucks have about $15M to spend on 4 roster players heading into next season. From what I can tell, Markstrom is still waiver-exempt, so the Canucks can bring in a veteran goalie (Hiller, Halak) with Booth's money, and open roster spots for one or more rookies coming into the lineup. You could also replace Booth's production, and hope for better production/chemistry with a guy like Nikolai Kulimen for half the price as a UFA, I imagine.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby dbr » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:39 pm

ClamRussel wrote:The one season that landed him this contract was a good first half in Florida. From what I've seen on the ice I don't find it a reasonable deal at $4.6M cap hit.


It was two seasons, unless you believe that the Canucks looked at his 16 G total in 2011-12 and thought they were getting that player (in direct contradiction to conventional wisdom at the time).
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby vic » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:42 pm

Meds wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:If Garrison was Swedish and not a 'local boy' you'd all be driving him to the airport along with Edler.

I'd be ecstatic to see him gone as well. A once promising signing not looking so promising now.


Garrison's value is on the PP and responsible, simple, play in his own end.

The Canucks PP doesn't really work for Garrison because they don't move the puck quickly enough. The guy gets a one-timer off faster than most people I've seen, and with only half a windup it's a bomb that few can match.....he's also good at letting it go without the pass being absolutely perfect, something none of our other defensemen can do.

In Florida he was on a shitty team and put up good numbers. The Canucks were coming off of another President's Trophy and had a good PP that had shown a drop in production with the loss of Ehrhoff and now Salo. Garrison should have been a good fit, but the book on the Canucks was out and Garrison was rendered useless because of the other players on the Canucks PP slowing things down, and 2 of our best forwards being unwilling to shoot.

Change up the PP and everyone will be singing Garrison's praises again as he bombs away for 15+ goals and 35 points.


A 35 point Garrison would be great, but 33 points this past season (which matched his career best on a "shitty" Florida team) puts him into the buy out discussion.

The Canucks were a shitty team this season too.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Mondi » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:52 pm

I think you forgot Ballard.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:16 pm

Let's remember that Booth was looking like the player we thought we were getting until his knee injury. Then he misses almost a full year of playing and trying time due the ankle injury.

It is a bit brutal to say he has coasted for two years. He has not had the production we need but he suffered two pretty significant injuries both of which needed recovery time. He was unable to train last off season and it took him half a year this season to just begin it find his form again.

I have no idea what he will be like next year but it is really unfair to say he was garbage or coasting.

If we need the cap space buy him out. If we trade pieces do the core why not keep him for the final year. I won't be broken hearted either way. What is ailing the Canucks is bigger that David fucking Booth.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby ClamRussel » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:22 pm

dbr wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:The one season that landed him this contract was a good first half in Florida. From what I've seen on the ice I don't find it a reasonable deal at $4.6M cap hit.


It was two seasons, unless you believe that the Canucks looked at his 16 G total in 2011-12 and thought they were getting that player (in direct contradiction to conventional wisdom at the time).


I think that's exactly what happened. They thought they were getting a younger better Salo and let him go. You don't pay that kind of money to a guy w/ a career best 18pts, it was the next year & those 16 goals that landed the big ticket.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby ClamRussel » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:29 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
ClamRussel wrote: I'm not against Garrison, I just think he'll be in the conversation when topic of buyout comes up (as will Booth & Burrows). Mostly because that cap hit lasts for 4 more years, I know I'd expect more for the $6.5M he was paid. Booth might dodge the bullet because he's only got one year remaining. It's entirely possible no one gets bought out in the end.

Everyone will & should be under scrutiny.

In hindsight, considering the return we got, and the loss of Schneider, should the buyout have been used on Lu?


Only 15 players have been bought out using the compliance buyout. Montador, Olesz, Colaiacovo, Gilbert, Gomez, Kaberle, Hedberg, DiPietro, Redden, Briere, Bryzgalov, Lecavalier, Komisarek, Grabovski, and Schultz. I don't know that I would lump Garrison into that category of player having a ridiculous contract, or being a serious under performer. Booth certainly fits that mould, Burrows was looking like he could also, but seemed to turn it around near the end.

I think Doc has pointed out how the Luongo contract could come back to bite us in the future, so maybe it should have been used on him. Conversely, if he really thought his "contract sucks" maybe there should have been greater exploration into possibly voiding it.

I still feel Booth should be the guy bought out. It doesn't bode well for the team identity that you should be able to coast through several seasons of shitty play, and dodge a buyout because you "only have one year left" or played marginally better over 20 games where the team was still losing. If we're serious about holding people accountable, Booth should go because he's been garbage for the majority of his time here and he has absolutely no trade value.

If Booth is bought out, the Canucks have about $15M to spend on 4 roster players heading into next season. From what I can tell, Markstrom is still waiver-exempt, so the Canucks can bring in a veteran goalie (Hiller, Halak) with Booth's money, and open roster spots for one or more rookies coming into the lineup. You could also replace Booth's production, and hope for better production/chemistry with a guy like Nikolai Kulimen for half the price as a UFA, I imagine.


Garrison doesn't have a ridiculous contract, it's just not a very good one. He's clearly overpaid. DiPietro's was ridiculous. Is Yashin's still on New York's books?

I think that's unfair criticism of Booth but I understand the sentiment. The guy was a disaster for most of the season. However, I truly believe what we saw from him at the end is the real Booth. Injuries have plagued him and I think he earned a second chance. He was easily one if our top wingers at the end. That kind of positive effort has to be rewarded, he worked his ass off.

Not so sure about Markstrom being waiver-exempt. What's the rule on that?
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby SKYO » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:36 pm

Buy out Booth - just cause he played half decent for a handful of games when he knew he was going to be bought out doesn't mean we should keep him, use that cap space to sign MOuLSON Canadian, injury or not we need a winger whose more prolific in scoring and can play in our top 6, not a $4.25M per for a player who only plays well with our 3rd liners in Richardson - Kassian.

Just remember Booth hasn't showed much of any chemistry with the Sedins or Ryan Kesler, so he's pretty much stuck on the 3rd.

Rather pay a mill or two more for someone whose proven to be more productive.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Island Nucklehead » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:45 pm

ClamRussel wrote:Garrison doesn't have a ridiculous contract, it's just not a very good one. He's clearly overpaid. DiPietro's was ridiculous. Is Yashin's still on New York's books?


Yep. Yashin counts for $2M against their cap until after next season. Hasn't played an NHL game since 06-07.

Injuries have plagued him and I think he earned a second chance. He was easily one if our top wingers at the end. That kind of positive effort has to be rewarded, he worked his ass off.


I guess it depends on what Linden's short-term plan is for the franchise. We might not have to be a cap team next year if we plan on bringing the kids and their ELC's into the lineup. If we are a cap team again, I'm not sure we can afford a $4.25M reward for a third line guy.

The other thing I was musing about re: Buyouts and Luongo is the idea of buying out our retained salary portion. I wonder if the league would do that, it would cost us chump change and give us that $800K to use before 2022.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:28 pm

I would find it improbable that we could buy out a portion of a contract. When buying out a contract you are only paying a portion, not the full amount owing, over a specific number of years. The player, who will not get his full contract instead gets to be FA and sign where he chooses or is able to. To allow us to buy out a portion of the $800,000 deprives Luongo of money and does not allow him FA status. Can't see how it would work.

It would also not relieve us of any future cap recapture since he would still be playing under the original contract.
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