Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

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Island Nucklehead
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Island Nucklehead »

herb wrote: Either way, talking about buying Garrison out is stoopid. The guy would surely have value around the league, thus there would be no need to even consider buying him out if management decided to go another direction.
Yes. Especially considering nearly everyone had down years this past season playing under Torts.

Edler is still the guy I'd be looking to move.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Betamax »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
herb wrote: Either way, talking about buying Garrison out is stoopid. The guy would surely have value around the league, thus there would be no need to even consider buying him out if management decided to go another direction.
Yes. Especially considering nearly everyone had down years this past season playing under Torts.

Edler is still the guy I'd be looking to move.
That says it all. For a guy that was suppose to provide the boost, a jump start to a "stale" team, in his final presser he acknowledges that he couldn't get the job done and they ended up with a FUBAR season.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by herb »

Betamax wrote:That says it all. For a guy that was suppose to provide the boost, a jump start to a "stale" team, in his final presser he acknowledges that he couldn't get the job done and they ended up with a FUBAR season.
Yup.

I'm torn on Torts. On the one hand, I like the guy. He is entertaining and his press conferences are genuinely good. On the other hand, clearly he badly misread the situation thinking the best course of action was to try and change the way our best players approached the game, which in retrospect was pretty stupid.

It's not all Torts' fault and at this point I am ambivalent as to whether he stays or goes. The team was trending in this general direction the last couple of years under AV. It's also not the coaching staff's fault that injuries ran their course and that we had zero forward depth.

I do want Sullivan gone. I would like to see somebody more progressive and perhaps the heir apparent as an assistant next season.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by SKYO »

herb wrote: On the other hand, clearly he badly misread the situation thinking the best course of action was to try and change the way our best players approached the game, which in retrospect was pretty stupid.

It's not all Torts' fault and at this point I am ambivalent as to whether he stays or goes. The team was trending in this general direction the last couple of years under AV. It's also not the coaching staff's fault that injuries ran their course and that we had zero forward depth.

I do want Sullivan gone. I would like to see somebody more progressive and perhaps the heir apparent as an assistant next season.
I want a full coaching staff change, definitely need two assistant coaches one a superb defensive minded type and a powerplay/special teams guy.

And of course the adaptable head coach who can work with what he's given, ie Trotz.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Strangelove »

Hockey Widow wrote: Yes, if Luongo retires that ridiculous 800k comes off our books. BUT THEN WE EAT MILLIONS IN CAP DUE TO THE CAP RECAPTURE PLUS 15%OF FLORIDA'S CAP RECAPTURE!
Here are the exact cap-hit penalties if/when Lu Wongo retires...

http://capgeek.com/news/roberto-luongo- ... -recapture

(the number in the green box would be for every season through 2021-22)

(for eg. $1,084,153 times 8 seasons if he retires this summer)

(for eg. $3,221,425 times 3 seasons if he retires in the summer of 2019)

Or perhaps we'll get lucky and he'll continue to play right through to 2022. :roll:
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by BurningBeard »

RoyalDude wrote:I'd be ecstatic to see him gone as well. A once promising signing not looking so promising now.
Alright, why was it a once promising signing? Explain that to me.

Was it because he had a decent point shot and just put up 33 points playing for Florida?

Because looking at him today, seems things haven't change much.

He's having more problems hitting the net then he used to, and had a shit poor second half, but you'd still be hard pressed to replace him for similar money.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Strangelove »

RoyalDude wrote:If Garrison was Swedish and not a 'local boy' you'd all be driving him to the airport along with Edler.
So now we're all racists?? :crazy:

LOL, typical you-know-wot....
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by ClamRussel »

herb wrote:Around the deadline there was talk that an Edler to Boston deal was all but done, but was contingent upon Kesler moving to Pittsburgh.

Edler to Detroit was rumored last summer, with McKenzie commenting that the Canucks were looking to move him before his NTC kicked in.

Maybe it's all made up media bullshit. Maybe not.

Either way, talking about buying Garrison out is stoopid. The guy would surely have value around the league, thus there would be no need to even consider buying him out if management decided to go another direction.
It's not "stoopid", it frees us of a bad contract. You're going on the assumption Edler is traded. We have a changing of the guard so the Gillis plan is over. A new coach = a new system. If Edler gets back on track he is a superior blue liner to Garrison. Right now his value is low & I don't see Linden giving up on him. With Tanev in the top 4 and due for a raise it doesn't make sense to be paying your #5 spot $4-5M. Buying out a player immediately gives us more UFA play money. If we trade Edler & don't bring back a top 4 D then obviously it makes sense to keep Garrison.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Island Nucklehead »

ClamRussel wrote: It's not "stoopid", it frees us of a bad contract. You're going on the assumption Edler is traded. We have a changing of the guard so the Gillis plan is over. A new coach = a new system. If Edler gets back on track he is a superior blue liner to Garrison. Right now his value is low & I don't see Linden giving up on him. With Tanev in the top 4 and due for a raise it doesn't make sense to be paying your #5 spot $4-5M. Buying out a player immediately gives us more UFA play money. If we trade Edler & don't bring back a top 4 D then obviously it makes sense to keep Garrison.
Do you honestly feel a guy like Garrison (assuming he'd waive) wouldn't have a trade market? I think a 30+ point dman with a cannon shot on a reasonable deal for the next 4 seasons would have a market.

He was our best d-man for almost half the season, I don't think he's a buyout candidate, nor is he someone we need to forcibly trade.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Meds »

RoyalDude wrote:If Garrison was Swedish and not a 'local boy' you'd all be driving him to the airport along with Edler.

I'd be ecstatic to see him gone as well. A once promising signing not looking so promising now.
Garrison's value is on the PP and responsible, simple, play in his own end.

The Canucks PP doesn't really work for Garrison because they don't move the puck quickly enough. The guy gets a one-timer off faster than most people I've seen, and with only half a windup it's a bomb that few can match.....he's also good at letting it go without the pass being absolutely perfect, something none of our other defensemen can do.

In Florida he was on a shitty team and put up good numbers. The Canucks were coming off of another President's Trophy and had a good PP that had shown a drop in production with the loss of Ehrhoff and now Salo. Garrison should have been a good fit, but the book on the Canucks was out and Garrison was rendered useless because of the other players on the Canucks PP slowing things down, and 2 of our best forwards being unwilling to shoot.

Change up the PP and everyone will be singing Garrison's praises again as he bombs away for 15+ goals and 35 points.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by ukcanuck »

Maybe it's me. But the UFA marKet is slim pickings this year so buying out the devil we know for one we don't know...that could be not such a smart plan.

I still think we need a power play QB style defenceman and a playmaking winger for Kesler (assuming he stays)


What I'm reading others saying, makes sense to me.

Might as well keep Booth's rights for the by out cost.
Burrows is a candidate to buy out, but gotta weigh the savings versus continuity. burrows has been a good soldier and left money on the table to help the team...at some point you gotta show there is a reason to love the franchise and have guys you can trot out in the sixties as lifers..

We got Jensen to ride wing and spell off burrows

Bottom six looks pretty solid with Richardson, kassian (who could bump up to second Mattias, Santo, Sestito,
et al

Then there is Horvat and Shinkaruk to spot in...

I don't think I'd bother using the buy out....


Hindsight....maybe they should have bought out luongo... Too bad..

The one remaining gniggler though.. If aqualinguini forbade GMMG to trade luongo with salary coming back..
Why did we take back salary and cap recapture in the end anyway?

That recapture rule is a joke btw, luongo's should have grandfathered and GMMG and linguinis should have be screaming the injustice the short fat, rat faced, cannniving New York lawyfucker loud and clear.

I guess there is no way to launch a lawsuit against the league. Too bad.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by rikster »

The only way it makes sense to buy anybody out is if the team plans on operating at the cap maximum next season.
I agree with those who have pointed out that a younger roster means a cheaper roster, so no need to fret about being cap compliant like some in the media are suggesting...For me it would be an embarrassment to be worrying about our cap situation and not being a Cup contender...

If the team does a 180, then I can see them taking on salary near the first or second deadline, but not to start the season....

For those who are suggesting player buyouts, I'd put the check books away and consider this season a mulligan under bad coaching decisions...

For those who are fretting about Luongo's possible cap recapture costs, my guess is that it gets forgotten if and when that day happens or is formally reversed much like the league changed its mind almost 4 years after levelling penalties against the Devils...

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/20 ... ersal.html

I think we all agree that the Linden hire was in part a PR move for the franchise, but I think it was also a PR move to get back into the leagues good books, especially considering that the person they hired was very instrumental in helping the league reach an agreement with the players two lockouts ago...

Take care...
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by ClamRussel »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
ClamRussel wrote: It's not "stoopid", it frees us of a bad contract. You're going on the assumption Edler is traded. We have a changing of the guard so the Gillis plan is over. A new coach = a new system. If Edler gets back on track he is a superior blue liner to Garrison. Right now his value is low & I don't see Linden giving up on him. With Tanev in the top 4 and due for a raise it doesn't make sense to be paying your #5 spot $4-5M. Buying out a player immediately gives us more UFA play money. If we trade Edler & don't bring back a top 4 D then obviously it makes sense to keep Garrison.
Do you honestly feel a guy like Garrison (assuming he'd waive) wouldn't have a trade market? I think a 30+ point dman with a cannon shot on a reasonable deal for the next 4 seasons would have a market.

He was our best d-man for almost half the season, I don't think he's a buyout candidate, nor is he someone we need to forcibly trade.
Did you see his performance in the 2nd half? Like I said earlier, hopefully it's injury related. The one season that landed him this contract was a good first half in Florida. From what I've seen on the ice I don't find it a reasonable deal at $4.6M cap hit. I'm not against Garrison, I just think he'll be in the conversation when topic of buyout comes up (as will Booth & Burrows). Mostly because that cap hit lasts for 4 more years, I know I'd expect more for the $6.5M he was paid. Booth might dodge the bullet because he's only got one year remaining. It's entirely possible no one gets bought out in the end.

Everyone will & should be under scrutiny.

In hindsight, considering the return we got, and the loss of Schneider, should the buyout have been used on Lu?
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by SKYO »

Mondi wrote:I'd wager 1000s that Burrows will not be bought out.

Such a home town favourite. Played on a discounted contract for years.

Would be a bad PR move, and we've seen how FA is not adverse to doing things for PR purposes.
Agreed, Booth in all likelihood will be bought out, its the cheapest and best solution for the Aquabros at that, plus it frees up some good cap space to bring in a couple good UFA's.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Island Nucklehead »

ClamRussel wrote: I'm not against Garrison, I just think he'll be in the conversation when topic of buyout comes up (as will Booth & Burrows). Mostly because that cap hit lasts for 4 more years, I know I'd expect more for the $6.5M he was paid. Booth might dodge the bullet because he's only got one year remaining. It's entirely possible no one gets bought out in the end.

Everyone will & should be under scrutiny.

In hindsight, considering the return we got, and the loss of Schneider, should the buyout have been used on Lu?
Only 15 players have been bought out using the compliance buyout. Montador, Olesz, Colaiacovo, Gilbert, Gomez, Kaberle, Hedberg, DiPietro, Redden, Briere, Bryzgalov, Lecavalier, Komisarek, Grabovski, and Schultz. I don't know that I would lump Garrison into that category of player having a ridiculous contract, or being a serious under performer. Booth certainly fits that mould, Burrows was looking like he could also, but seemed to turn it around near the end.

I think Doc has pointed out how the Luongo contract could come back to bite us in the future, so maybe it should have been used on him. Conversely, if he really thought his "contract sucks" maybe there should have been greater exploration into possibly voiding it.

I still feel Booth should be the guy bought out. It doesn't bode well for the team identity that you should be able to coast through several seasons of shitty play, and dodge a buyout because you "only have one year left" or played marginally better over 20 games where the team was still losing. If we're serious about holding people accountable, Booth should go because he's been garbage for the majority of his time here and he has absolutely no trade value.

If Booth is bought out, the Canucks have about $15M to spend on 4 roster players heading into next season. From what I can tell, Markstrom is still waiver-exempt, so the Canucks can bring in a veteran goalie (Hiller, Halak) with Booth's money, and open roster spots for one or more rookies coming into the lineup. You could also replace Booth's production, and hope for better production/chemistry with a guy like Nikolai Kulimen for half the price as a UFA, I imagine.
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