Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahawks?!

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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby Strangelove » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:39 pm

Betamax wrote:Uh, like what the Canucks have right now? How did THAT turn out? 8-)


Torts... might... have been a bit too much of a good thing.

But then he didn't have an assistant capable of playing "good cop" to his bad.

OR

... perhaps Torts just wasn't enough of an asshole?

Just spit balling.
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby dbr » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:50 pm

Regarding Pierre McGuire there's a reason he was canned in Hartford and basically rode out of town on a rail (see here), there's a reason he couldn't get another coaching or management job in the NHL after that and there's a reason the only other team who took a chance on him in that capacity, an ECHL club based in Baton Rouge, didn't bother renewing his contract after a single season.
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby Betamax » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:00 pm

dbr wrote:Regarding Pierre McGuire there's a reason he was canned in Hartford and basically rode out of town on a rail (see here), there's a reason he couldn't get another coaching or management job in the NHL after that and there's a reason the only other team who took a chance on him in that capacity, an ECHL club based in Baton Rouge, didn't bother renewing his contract after a single season.


Can there be a reason that, you learn from your past experiences? The article you cited was uh, two decades ago. So, Coach (at the time of this post) Torts talks about forgetting about what happened back in 2011, yet you bring up an op/ed from two decades ago. As what Jennifer Mathers said when she made her one and only appearance on TEAM 1040 radio, "Let it go, dave ... Let it go."

BTW, I don't know if you follow the NFL but Coach Carroll didn't exactly shine during his first stint in the NFL. 8-)
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby Strangelove » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:31 pm

Betamax wrote:As what Jennifer Mathers said when she made her one and only appearance on TEAM 1040 radio, "Let it go, dave ... Let it go."


He just pratted Jennifer!! :shock:

So she's back to "Jennifer Mather" again eh... interesting... INTERESTING 8-)
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby Betamax » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:47 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Betamax wrote:As what Jennifer Mathers said when she made her one and only appearance on TEAM 1040 radio, "Let it go, dave ... Let it go."


He just pratted Jennifer!! :shock:

So she's back to "Jennifer Mather" again eh... interesting... INTERESTING 8-)


AFAIK, I think she's still married to Burke. I wouldn't want to suggest otherwise. I've heard that spreading unfounded "rumors" could get you into cyber libel, eh? 8-)
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby Strangelove » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:59 pm

Not the... kind... of trouble I was thinking of... :wink:
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby dbr » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:15 am

Betamax wrote:
dbr wrote:Regarding Pierre McGuire there's a reason he was canned in Hartford and basically rode out of town on a rail (see here), there's a reason he couldn't get another coaching or management job in the NHL after that and there's a reason the only other team who took a chance on him in that capacity, an ECHL club based in Baton Rouge, didn't bother renewing his contract after a single season.


Can there be a reason that, you learn from your past experiences? The article you cited was uh, two decades ago. So, Coach (at the time of this post) Torts talks about forgetting about what happened back in 2011, yet you bring up an op/ed from two decades ago. As what Jennifer Mathers said when she made her one and only appearance on TEAM 1040 radio, "Let it go, dave ... Let it go."


Indeed. I know you're just looking to cause a stir with this particular line of thought so I'm having a really hard time giving a response to this my full attention but Current Coach John Tortorella was talking about reading the writing on the wall at this time rather than allowing not so recent events to colour one's perspective.

What about recent events indicates that Pierre McGuire is a more suitable coaching candidate than any of the hundreds of coaches currently working (or having worked in the last decade or so) for a North American hockey team?

If the Canucks core is "stale" what are Pierre's qualifications? Mouldering?

BTW, I don't know if you follow the NFL but Coach Carroll didn't exactly shine during his first stint in the NFL. 8-)


I don't really follow the NFL. But any idiot can go scan his Wikpedia page and see that he coached in that league for a decade prior to becoming a head coach and that after his first stint he continued to get coaching jobs in that league and even another head coaching job in New England, where his eventual termination was talked about in the terms of being one of the toughest decisions Robert Kraft had to make up to that point, "a lot of things were going on that made it difficult for him to stay, some of which were out of his control," etc.

Apparently he turned down more NFL coaching positions for the 2000 season before eventually going to USC. At least, that's what any idiot can read over on Wikipedia.

Contrasts pretty sharply with Pierre McGuire's one absolute disaster of a season (in which he earned no respect from his players or members of the Whalers organization, was openly mocked by opposing players, etc) after which his firing was openly called "the best thing that could have happened to the Whalers" by a prominent player - and his out-with-a-whimper ECHL campaign that marked the end of his coaching career.

By the way if you read the article it is not exactly an op-ed, unless you have reason to believe this reporter is lying it appears he spoke to over 20 individuals in the organization about McGuire to reach his conclusions.

At any rate you can attempt to undermine my position by saying the article is from "two decades ago" but the fact that one has to go back that far to find information about McGuire as a coach speaks volumes to the half-bakedness of the notion that he should be behind the bench of a professional hockey team in 2014.
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby Betamax » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:52 am

dbr wrote:
Betamax wrote:
dbr wrote:Regarding Pierre McGuire there's a reason he was canned in Hartford and basically rode out of town on a rail (see here), there's a reason he couldn't get another coaching or management job in the NHL after that and there's a reason the only other team who took a chance on him in that capacity, an ECHL club based in Baton Rouge, didn't bother renewing his contract after a single season.


Can there be a reason that, you learn from your past experiences? The article you cited was uh, two decades ago. So, Coach (at the time of this post) Torts talks about forgetting about what happened back in 2011, yet you bring up an op/ed from two decades ago. As what Jennifer Mathers said when she made her one and only appearance on TEAM 1040 radio, "Let it go, dave ... Let it go."


Indeed. I know you're just looking to cause a stir with this particular line of thought so I'm having a really hard time giving a response to this my full attention but Current Coach John Tortorella was talking about reading the writing on the wall at this time rather than allowing not so recent events to colour one's perspective.


Well, dave, based upon my previous dealings with you, you typically don't seem to give anything your "full attention" i.e. like when you and your hf buddy 'Proto' got exposed for who two really are in the 'shot blocking' debate.

BTW, did you finally read those two shot blocking "studies" by Charron and Dellow? LOL.

What about recent events indicates that Pierre McGuire is a more suitable coaching candidate than any of the hundreds of coaches currently working (or having worked in the last decade or so) for a North American hockey team?

If the Canucks core is "stale" what are Pierre's qualifications? Mouldering?


What has Pierre done in the past two decades? Probably watched and analysed as many hockey games at the amateur and pro level ... many at ice level, then probably anyone I can think off hand.

By the way if you read the article it is not exactly an op-ed, unless you have reason to believe this reporter is lying it appears he spoke to over 20 individuals in the organization about McGuire to reach his conclusions.

At any rate you can attempt to undermine my position by saying the article is from "two decades ago" but the fact that one has to go back that far to find information about McGuire as a coach speaks volumes to the half-bakedness of the notion that he should be behind the bench of a professional hockey team in 2014.


Well, how qualified do you believe you would have been two decades ago, in terms of hockey acumen vis-a-vis communicating your thoughts on "hockey issues" on a hockey messageboard, and how much in your opinion, do you believed you have grown since then? 8-)
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby dbr » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:24 am

Betamax wrote:
dbr wrote:Indeed. I know you're just looking to cause a stir with this particular line of thought so I'm having a really hard time giving a response to this my full attention but Current Coach John Tortorella was talking about reading the writing on the wall at this time rather than allowing not so recent events to colour one's perspective.


Well, dave, based upon my previous dealings with you, you typically don't seem to give anything your "full attention" i.e. like when you and your hf buddy 'Proto' got exposed for who two really are in the 'shot blocking' debate.

BTW, did you finally read those two shot blocking "studies" by Charron and Dellow? LOL.


Yep I sure did make a mistake that one time. It must get better and better each time nailing me to the wall on a simple error that I just can't bring myself to take accountability for.. :roll:

What about recent events indicates that Pierre McGuire is a more suitable coaching candidate than any of the hundreds of coaches currently working (or having worked in the last decade or so) for a North American hockey team?

If the Canucks core is "stale" what are Pierre's qualifications? Mouldering?


What has Pierre done in the past two decades? Probably watched and analysed as many hockey games at the amateur and pro level ... many at ice level, then probably anyone I can think off hand.


Cool, sounds like he would make an excellent scout or consultant. What makes him a decent coach, or at least gives some pause to reconsider the well documented cases of interpersonal issues he's had (that ended his coaching career)?

By the way if you read the article it is not exactly an op-ed, unless you have reason to believe this reporter is lying it appears he spoke to over 20 individuals in the organization about McGuire to reach his conclusions.

At any rate you can attempt to undermine my position by saying the article is from "two decades ago" but the fact that one has to go back that far to find information about McGuire as a coach speaks volumes to the half-bakedness of the notion that he should be behind the bench of a professional hockey team in 2014.


Well, how qualified do you believe you would have been two decades ago, in terms of hockey acumen vis-a-vis communicating your thoughts on "hockey issues" on a hockey messageboard, and how much in your opinion, do you believed you have grown since then? 8-)


I think the last twenty years have covered a pretty different part of my life than they have of Pierre's. Moreover, coaching an NHL franchise is something that few individuals ever get a chance to do, nevermind a second or third chance. This makes a comparison to hockey message board posting (which as the events of Saturday April 12 2014 at approximately 1:45 PM Pacific Daylight time show, is open to virtually anyone) tenuous to say the least.
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby rats19 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:39 am

^^^^ :P
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby Hank » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:46 am

Such civility and reasoned arguments.

Is this what this place is coming to?
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby rats19 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:59 am

Hank wrote:Such civility and reasoned arguments.

Is this what this place is coming to?

Disappointed Hank? :shock:
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby Betamax » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:03 pm

dbr wrote:Cool, sounds like he would make an excellent scout or consultant. What makes him a decent coach, or at least gives some pause to reconsider the well documented cases of interpersonal issues he's had (that ended his coaching career)?


"I'm a firm believer in second chances, and if we're going to go through life not giving anyone second chances, what kind of life are we going to have?"

--Todd Bertuzzi

If we are going to discuss "interpersonal issues" ... what about what happened about two decades ago (17 years ago), when Iron Mike Tyson showed qualities Coach Torts couldn't procure from his players:



Last year ... the reconciliation/redemption:



8-)
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Re: Could the Canucks learn from the Superbowl Champs Seahaw

Postby Betamax » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:26 am

Betamax wrote:BTW, in a follow-up post back in February 11th, 2014 ... I wrote the following:

Okay ... I'll throw out one MONSTER possibility ...

Image

Extremely positive personality and a good communicator. Has a strong hockey scouting background (well, he's has been featured on virtually every TSN Draft Preview Show that I can remember). One anecdote, I think he was going nuts on teams that were bypassing Zach Parise during the 2003 NHL Entry Draft. His Coaching record, well as a head coach isn't that impressive but he is at least a two time Stanley Cup Champion as a Scout and Assistant Coach with the Pittsburg Penguins. Also,his role as a ice-level hockey analyst for NBC gives him a perspective on the current players that others vying for a GM and/or possibly Coaching role doesn't have to opportunity to take advantage of.

He might be more suited for just a GM role but I don't think he could do any worse than what the Canucks have right now in Coaching if he was given a duo role as both GM/Coach or one as a Coach where he has significant input on player personnel decisions (somewhat similar to the authority Patrick Roy has with the Avs).

The only thing I'm not sure of is, will this hire, be a smashing success or epic failure -- but how would we know if he isn't given a chance either here or elsewhere? 8-)


Okay ... one thing that doesn't bode well for a Mcguire hire ... is that there is precedent in Pro Sports for a prominent and respected broadcaster to turn into a Pro Sports Executive.

Two words: Matt Millen

Unfortunately, things didn't turn out too well for him and the franchise he headed:

via: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Mille ... management

Detroit Lions management
In 2001, Millen left broadcasting to assume the job of the Detroit Lions' CEO and de facto general manager. At that time, Millen had no prior player development or front office experience.

Millen was the Lions' CEO for seven full seasons, from 2001–07; during that time, the club compiled a record of 31-81 (with at least nine losses each season). Detroit's .277 winning percentage was among the worst ever compiled by an NFL team over a seven-year period; only the Chicago Cardinals of 1939-45 (10-61-3, .141) and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers of 1983-89 (26-86, .234) were less successful.

During the early part of Millen's tenure (2001–2003), the Lions failed to win a road game for three years (0–24) before opening the season with a win at the Chicago Bears in 2004. Overall, the Lions are 8–50 on the road since 2001.[11] Millen himself admitted to an interviewer in 2008 that the team's record under his leadership has been "beyond awful".[12] The Wall Street Journal said that NFL executives admit in private that Millen "has made more bad draft decisions than anyone else in two centuries".[13]


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