And So The Axe Falls

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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby Strangelove » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:15 am

Jovocop wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Owners loved him and so did the GMs. It was players, agents and members of the PA, not all but some that had issue. If I remember Shanahan had a problem with him, or was that Chelios?


That was Chelios but Shanahan might not like Linden either...

http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=be0 ... 0f6723a446


Linden and The Psycho Chelios (remember the threats to Bettman & family) patched things up eventually.

I thought Linden and Shanahan always got along quite well. :?

Wasn't The Psycho Chelios pissed at both of them and their backroom dealings?
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby Reefer2 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:39 pm

Boston Canucker wrote:
While other GMs may well have wanted to undermine Gillis (although would they do that at the expense of their own teams, if a good deal was there? I somehow doubt that), but it is the bolded part above that is the key to Gillis' failure. His constant refrain that the rules changes with the CBA made it too difficult for him, as if everyone and their pet puppy didn't know Bettman, cheered on by his boy Burke, hated these long term deals and had every intention of dealing with them in the next CBA, shows MG was not doing his job of looking down the road, anticipating what were very predictable developments. To act as if this was somehow a surprise to him, as he basically did to give an excuse on the Luongo situation, was really for me a sign he was not fully up to this job, had his time, and was time to go.


Exactly - MG was either given wrong information or was so arrogant that he could not read the tea leaves to not know that Luongo's deal would hurt long time. I do think his previous job got in the way on the length of that contract.
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby ClamRussel » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:43 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:
While other GMs may well have wanted to undermine Gillis (although would they do that at the expense of their own teams, if a good deal was there? I somehow doubt that), but it is the bolded part above that is the key to Gillis' failure. His constant refrain that the rules changes with the CBA made it too difficult for him, as if everyone and their pet puppy didn't know Bettman, cheered on by his boy Burke, hated these long term deals and had every intention of dealing with them in the next CBA, shows MG was not doing his job of looking down the road, anticipating what were very predictable developments. To act as if this was somehow a surprise to him, as he basically did to give an excuse on the Luongo situation, was really for me a sign he was not fully up to this job, had his time, and was time to go.


Exactly - MG was either given wrong information or was so arrogant that he could not read the tea leaves to not know that Luongo's deal would hurt long time. I do think his previous job got in the way on the length of that contract.

Nevertheless, those deals should have been grandfathered in since they were signed within the limits of the prior CBA. Fix the issue moving forward.
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby Topper » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:14 pm

GMMG's failure was being to true to players instead of the owners.

He catered to Luongo's personal situation for far too long. Credit Roberto for his patience waiting a hokey trade. The correct move would have been to dump Roberto when the problem arose.

It is not too unlike the Kesler move though both had different reasons for wanting elsewhere, elsewhere was where they wanted.
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:42 pm

ClamRussel wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:
While other GMs may well have wanted to undermine Gillis (although would they do that at the expense of their own teams, if a good deal was there? I somehow doubt that), but it is the bolded part above that is the key to Gillis' failure. His constant refrain that the rules changes with the CBA made it too difficult for him, as if everyone and their pet puppy didn't know Bettman, cheered on by his boy Burke, hated these long term deals and had every intention of dealing with them in the next CBA, shows MG was not doing his job of looking down the road, anticipating what were very predictable developments. To act as if this was somehow a surprise to him, as he basically did to give an excuse on the Luongo situation, was really for me a sign he was not fully up to this job, had his time, and was time to go.


Exactly - MG was either given wrong information or was so arrogant that he could not read the tea leaves to not know that Luongo's deal would hurt long time. I do think his previous job got in the way on the length of that contract.

Nevertheless, those deals should have been grandfathered in since they were signed within the limits of the prior CBA. Fix the issue moving forward.



What really disturbs me about all of this is the partial grandfathering in. So Rick Nash gets grandfathered because he was traded before the new CBA and Glen Sather and the NYR get a pass,Malone with Columbus, and any future team he may get traded to. The whole cap recapture should be renamed the " we hate Mike Gillis or the Luongo" clause.
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby rikster » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:07 pm

GMMG's failure was being to true to players instead of the owners.


I agree...

As far as re capture goes, I don't think it will ever see the light of day and I've thought that before the league changed its mind/ruling on the Kovalchuk/Jersey situation....

Not to mention GM's work in the here and now and with 14 teams having new GM's as of 2013 I have a hard time believing that they worry about a situation that may become an issue years down the road...

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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby ClamRussel » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:54 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:
While other GMs may well have wanted to undermine Gillis (although would they do that at the expense of their own teams, if a good deal was there? I somehow doubt that), but it is the bolded part above that is the key to Gillis' failure. His constant refrain that the rules changes with the CBA made it too difficult for him, as if everyone and their pet puppy didn't know Bettman, cheered on by his boy Burke, hated these long term deals and had every intention of dealing with them in the next CBA, shows MG was not doing his job of looking down the road, anticipating what were very predictable developments. To act as if this was somehow a surprise to him, as he basically did to give an excuse on the Luongo situation, was really for me a sign he was not fully up to this job, had his time, and was time to go.


Exactly - MG was either given wrong information or was so arrogant that he could not read the tea leaves to not know that Luongo's deal would hurt long time. I do think his previous job got in the way on the length of that contract.

Nevertheless, those deals should have been grandfathered in since they were signed within the limits of the prior CBA. Fix the issue moving forward.



What really disturbs me about all of this is the partial grandfathering in. So Rick Nash gets grandfathered because he was traded before the new CBA and Glen Sather and the NYR get a pass,Malone with Columbus, and any future team he may get traded to. The whole cap recapture should be renamed the " we hate Mike Gillis or the Luongo" clause.

Typical NHL favouritism within the clique.
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby Strangelove » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:22 pm

rikster wrote:As far as re capture goes, I don't think it will ever see the light of day and I've thought that before the league changed its mind/ruling on the Kovalchuk/Jersey situation....

Not to mention GM's work in the here and now and with 14 teams having new GM's as of 2013 I have a hard time believing that they worry about a situation that may become an issue years down the road...


The recapture penalty has already "seen the light of day". :eh:

And it's part of a GM's job to take the recapture penalty into consideration, even if it may be "down the road".
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby mathonwy » Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:46 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
BladesofSteel wrote:Bullying tactics?

Like how when Mike Gillis bullied Glen Sather into forking over $18.45 mil for an aging/idling Bobby Holik?

Moving on.



Like I said, he was a prick to deal with as a player agent and made few friends in the GM fraternity. And Sather was one of that fraternity by the way, that detested him.

I think due diligence by an owner or president means you need to know the personality of the guy you hire and what impact his reputation and or relationships will have on his ability to perform his job. This one is on the water boy and I agree he didn't make the same mistake twice when he brought the prodigal son back.

For the most part I always supported MG but by the end I was glad he was gone.


Thanks HW. This absolutely confirms my deducements that I had made in the rudderless thread.

Posters on here kept on insisting that GMMG did the best he could and if there was no deal, there was no deal.

Yeah, that's only partially true. Part of being able to make the deal is the honest and integrity of the deal maker. (IE salesperson) And GMMG is neither. The old school GM's have lasted so long because at the end of the day, they have the integrity necessary to be in their position. Weasels don't make it and as it turns out, Mike Gillis is a weasel.

Ahhh shit..... being a Canuck fan really is a bitch sometimes. In what probably has been the golden years of the Canuck organization in terms of having skilled players, we end up with a fucking weasel in charge. A weasel that doesn't know jack shit about managing the cap at that.
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:36 pm

If anyone would know a weasel it would be Mathowny . After all he is a Burrows fan
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby Hockey Widow » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:55 pm

I have to laugh at the notion that the old boys are not weasels and MG is. I mean really? The old boys are as weasely as it gets. Integrity, really? BB, Sather and their kind will fuck you over any chance they get. But when they dislike another GM or think another GM has wronged them, like the Oilers and Penner, look out. The wrath of the old boys freezing you out or making your life difficult because they think they set the rules for the game, come banging down.

Most fraternities are the same. Thin blue line and all of that. The unwritten rules club.


And since when did MG screw the cap? He went out and hired one of the best in the business to be our capologist. Together they did a terrific job managing the cap for us and getting us through some tricky situations. You may hate the trades he made or disliked some of his moves and non moves but he massaged the cap very well. Calgary, now there is a team that made some real cap blunders, so much so there were games one season they could not ice a full roster.

Hell Chicago made a serious blunder in not qualifying players by the deadline that put them in cap hell but even they managed to trade their way out of it, even if it did cost Tallon his job.

By the end I was with most, MG had to go. But let's not re-write history to go along with some lame ass narrative that MG was the worst thing since tofu was introduced to North America. I mean really...
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby Strangelove » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:07 pm

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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby Lancer » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:10 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I have to laugh at the notion that the old boys are not weasels and MG is. I mean really? The old boys are as weasely as it gets. Integrity, really? BB, Sather and their kind will fuck you over any chance they get. But when they dislike another GM or think another GM has wronged them, like the Oilers and Penner, look out. The wrath of the old boys freezing you out or making your life difficult because they think they set the rules for the game, come banging down.

Most fraternities are the same. Thin blue line and all of that. The unwritten rules club.


And since when did MG screw the cap? He went out and hired one of the best in the business to be our capologist. Together they did a terrific job managing the cap for us and getting us through some tricky situations. You may hate the trades he made or disliked some of his moves and non moves but he massaged the cap very well. Calgary, now there is a team that made some real cap blunders, so much so there were games one season they could not ice a full roster.

Hell Chicago made a serious blunder in not qualifying players by the deadline that put them in cap hell but even they managed to trade their way out of it, even if it did cost Tallon his job.

By the end I was with most, MG had to go. But let's not re-write history to go along with some lame ass narrative that MG was the worst thing since tofu was introduced to North America. I mean really...


Integrity and the NHL should not be mentioned in the same sentence unless it is to talk about the contrast between the two. These guys live to fuck each other over and make like they were the stand-up guy in the deal to all their peers. MG had no personal capital among the guys he found among his peers, and if he was voted top GM in 2011 there was no denying the moved he made at that time and the team's record justified it.

The Canucks flirting with the cap ceiling and inventive ways of staying under it would be, to the impartial observer, quite a feat and I'm glad Gilman is still around. I'm not going to sail around the buoy yet again about the Luongo contract, but suffice it to say that by the end nobody in the league appeared to have any time for MG. Given the state of the team and his state vis-à-vis the league could any other outcome have been foreseen? I get you, HW, but the boys had their one shot and after that the vultures closed in.
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby Topper » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:35 am

Strangelove wrote:http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=566844

Landslide. :drink:

Who let you in the back door to inject a little fact in the rumour mill?
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Postby ClamRussel » Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:33 am

Strangelove wrote:http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=566844

Landslide. :drink:

He strengthened the Canucks defensively over the off-season by adding blueliners Keith Ballard and Dan Hamhuis and shutdown center Manny Malhotra.

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