And So The Axe Falls

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Hockey Widow
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by Hockey Widow »

I think it is a two pronged answer. First and foremost it was MG's responsibility to deal with the Luongo issue in the best interests of the club. He screwed the pooch all on his own. Seems most GMs new or expected some type of cap-recapture but MG did not, or did not recognize it quickly enough. He let the situation drag on far too long and never recognized the difficulty in trading that contract with the fact there was a NTC.

The second answer is that there were deliberate attempts to undermine his efforts to trade Luongo. They seemed to worked. But again MG should have recognized this. When Luongo was finally traded it was for scraps. I question the timing of that trade. What was the rush at that point? Why not wait until the off season, take a deep breath and then deal with it? The return may have been the same or, with Benning in charge, it may have been Lack that was moved. Benning may have been able to use Luongo with other pieces to get the first overall pick. Who knows, because we never will.

I have no doubt that there exists this old boys club of GMs who do business this way but I also don't give MG a pass. In the end, it was his responsibility, happened on his watch.
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BladesofSteel
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by BladesofSteel »

Hockey Widow wrote: I question the timing of that trade. What was the rush at that point?
Mike Keenan on line one.
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Hockey Widow
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by Hockey Widow »

BladesofSteel wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote: I question the timing of that trade. What was the rush at that point?
Mike Keenan on line one.

I don't get it??
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BingoTough
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by BingoTough »

Hockey Widow wrote: I have no doubt that there exists this old boys club of GMs who do business this way but I also don't give MG a pass. In the end, it was his responsibility, happened on his watch.
I agree. If at work you can't get along with people (peers, customers, vendors) because of your personality or prior behaviour it's on you to address and fix it. If you can't that's on you.That sounds like it was a challenge he didn't overcome.

Hopefully Linden's legacy in the union doesn't hurt him. I seem to recall not everybody was thrilled with how that went down as well? Presumably though he's in the background when it comes to engaging GMs and agents. He doesn't seem to have an ego that needs feeding.
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Hockey Widow
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by Hockey Widow »

BingoTough wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote: I have no doubt that there exists this old boys club of GMs who do business this way but I also don't give MG a pass. In the end, it was his responsibility, happened on his watch.
I agree. If at work you can't get along with people (peers, customers, vendors) because of your personality or prior behaviour it's on you to address and fix it. If you can't that's on you.That sounds like it was a challenge he didn't overcome.

Hopefully Linden's legacy in the union doesn't hurt him. I seem to recall not everybody was thrilled with how that went down as well? Presumably though he's in the background when it comes to engaging GMs and agents. He doesn't seem to have an ego that needs feeding.
Owners loved him and so did the GMs. It was players, agents and members of the PA, not all but some that had issue. If I remember Shanahan had a problem with him, or was that Chelios?
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BingoTough
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by BingoTough »

Hockey Widow wrote: Owners loved him and so did the GMs. It was players, agents and members of the PA, not all but some that had issue. If I remember Shanahan had a problem with him, or was that Chelios?
I guess I'm thinking that players are increasingly moving into management positions, but hopefully Benning neutralizes any lingering dislike.
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by rikster »

The second answer is that there were deliberate attempts to undermine his efforts to trade Luongo
The suggestion that GM's would refuse to deal with Gillis because they disliked Gillis sounds plausible until you remind yourself that GM's report to owners who don't give a rats *ss if you like each other or not...

The other problem with these kind of rumors is that after the GM's have had their fun with Gillis and the Canucks those same GM's would have to explain to their owners why they didn't land one of the two Canuck goalies given how cheaply they were eventually dealt for...

I wonder for example how the meeting went in Pittsburg between Mario and Shero after Schneider was dealt to Jersey?

With Gillis I think his best before date had expired and it was a number of events and situations which led to the decision to fire him...

Being a prickly person to deal with and being polar opposite to the nature of Nonis was likely a trait ownership was drawn to in the beginning and the fact that they moved away from that personality back to the nice guy again in Linden is typical ying and yang that often happens in business....

But the notion that had Gillis been a nicer guy teams would have made better offers is naïve in my opinion...

Take care...
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by Tciso »

Hockey Widow wrote: Owners loved him (Linden) and so did the GMs. It was players, agents and members of the PA, not all but some that had issue. If I remember Shanahan had a problem with him, or was that Chelios?
So, we won't be trading with the leaves anytome soon?? :cry: :cry: :cry: Oh wait. I keep forgetting they have nothing we want or need.
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Tciso
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by Tciso »

rikster wrote:
Being a prickly person to deal with and being polar opposite to the nature of Nonis was likely a trait ownership was drawn to in the beginning and the fact that they moved away from that personality back to the nice guy again in Linden is typical ying and yang that often happens in business....

But the notion that had Gillis been a nicer guy teams would have made better offers is naïve in my opinion...

Take care...
For the most part,I agree with you, but if you are an a$$hole, and other GMs don't like talking to you, regardless of if they like/respect you or not, then your calls are returned last. It's not that you don't get a better offer, but that you are the 2nd dance partner, and some real quality players are gone before the other GMs answer your call. And, if teams don't like your negotiation style on top of it all, then you are really screwed.
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BingoTough
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by BingoTough »

rikster wrote:
The second answer is that there were deliberate attempts to undermine his efforts to trade Luongo
The suggestion that GM's would refuse to deal with Gillis because they disliked Gillis sounds plausible until you remind yourself that GM's report to owners who don't give a rats *ss if you like each other or not...

The other problem with these kind of rumors is that after the GM's have had their fun with Gillis and the Canucks those same GM's would have to explain to their owners why they didn't land one of the two Canuck goalies given how cheaply they were eventually dealt for...

I wonder for example how the meeting went in Pittsburg between Mario and Shero after Schneider was dealt to Jersey?

With Gillis I think his best before date had expired and it was a number of events and situations which led to the decision to fire him...

Being a prickly person to deal with and being polar opposite to the nature of Nonis was likely a trait ownership was drawn to in the beginning and the fact that they moved away from that personality back to the nice guy again in Linden is typical ying and yang that often happens in business....

But the notion that had Gillis been a nicer guy teams would have made better offers is naïve in my opinion...

Take care...
People engage in emotive unprofessional behavior in the business world every day. Even senior executives and company owners. People also give better deals to those that they have a good relationship with all the time. This includes big companies, as in 100k+ employee companies. I don't think it's naive at all.
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by Jovocop »

Hockey Widow wrote:
BingoTough wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote: I have no doubt that there exists this old boys club of GMs who do business this way but I also don't give MG a pass. In the end, it was his responsibility, happened on his watch.
I agree. If at work you can't get along with people (peers, customers, vendors) because of your personality or prior behaviour it's on you to address and fix it. If you can't that's on you.That sounds like it was a challenge he didn't overcome.

Hopefully Linden's legacy in the union doesn't hurt him. I seem to recall not everybody was thrilled with how that went down as well? Presumably though he's in the background when it comes to engaging GMs and agents. He doesn't seem to have an ego that needs feeding.
Owners loved him and so did the GMs. It was players, agents and members of the PA, not all but some that had issue. If I remember Shanahan had a problem with him, or was that Chelios?
That was Chelios but Shanahan might not like Linden either...

http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=be0 ... 0f6723a446
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by Boston Canucker »

Hockey Widow wrote:I think it is a two pronged answer. First and foremost it was MG's responsibility to deal with the Luongo issue in the best interests of the club. He screwed the pooch all on his own. Seems most GMs new or expected some type of cap-recapture but MG did not, or did not recognize it quickly enough. He let the situation drag on far too long and never recognized the difficulty in trading that contract with the fact there was a NTC.

The second answer is that there were deliberate attempts to undermine his efforts to trade Luongo. They seemed to worked. But again MG should have recognized this. When Luongo was finally traded it was for scraps. I question the timing of that trade. What was the rush at that point? Why not wait until the off season, take a deep breath and then deal with it? The return may have been the same or, with Benning in charge, it may have been Lack that was moved. Benning may have been able to use Luongo with other pieces to get the first overall pick. Who knows, because we never will.

I have no doubt that there exists this old boys club of GMs who do business this way but I also don't give MG a pass. In the end, it was his responsibility, happened on his watch.
While other GMs may well have wanted to undermine Gillis (although would they do that at the expense of their own teams, if a good deal was there? I somehow doubt that), but it is the bolded part above that is the key to Gillis' failure. His constant refrain that the rules changes with the CBA made it too difficult for him, as if everyone and their pet puppy didn't know Bettman, cheered on by his boy Burke, hated these long term deals and had every intention of dealing with them in the next CBA, shows MG was not doing his job of looking down the road, anticipating what were very predictable developments. To act as if this was somehow a surprise to him, as he basically did to give an excuse on the Luongo situation, was really for me a sign he was not fully up to this job, had his time, and was time to go.
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by Strangelove »

Jovocop wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote: Owners loved him and so did the GMs. It was players, agents and members of the PA, not all but some that had issue. If I remember Shanahan had a problem with him, or was that Chelios?
That was Chelios but Shanahan might not like Linden either...

http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=be0 ... 0f6723a446
Linden and The Psycho Chelios (remember the threats to Bettman & family) patched things up eventually.

I thought Linden and Shanahan always got along quite well. :?

Wasn't The Psycho Chelios pissed at both of them and their backroom dealings?
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

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Boston Canucker wrote:
While other GMs may well have wanted to undermine Gillis (although would they do that at the expense of their own teams, if a good deal was there? I somehow doubt that), but it is the bolded part above that is the key to Gillis' failure. His constant refrain that the rules changes with the CBA made it too difficult for him, as if everyone and their pet puppy didn't know Bettman, cheered on by his boy Burke, hated these long term deals and had every intention of dealing with them in the next CBA, shows MG was not doing his job of looking down the road, anticipating what were very predictable developments. To act as if this was somehow a surprise to him, as he basically did to give an excuse on the Luongo situation, was really for me a sign he was not fully up to this job, had his time, and was time to go.
Exactly - MG was either given wrong information or was so arrogant that he could not read the tea leaves to not know that Luongo's deal would hurt long time. I do think his previous job got in the way on the length of that contract.
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Re: And So The Axe Falls

Post by ClamRussel »

Reefer2 wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:
While other GMs may well have wanted to undermine Gillis (although would they do that at the expense of their own teams, if a good deal was there? I somehow doubt that), but it is the bolded part above that is the key to Gillis' failure. His constant refrain that the rules changes with the CBA made it too difficult for him, as if everyone and their pet puppy didn't know Bettman, cheered on by his boy Burke, hated these long term deals and had every intention of dealing with them in the next CBA, shows MG was not doing his job of looking down the road, anticipating what were very predictable developments. To act as if this was somehow a surprise to him, as he basically did to give an excuse on the Luongo situation, was really for me a sign he was not fully up to this job, had his time, and was time to go.
Exactly - MG was either given wrong information or was so arrogant that he could not read the tea leaves to not know that Luongo's deal would hurt long time. I do think his previous job got in the way on the length of that contract.
Nevertheless, those deals should have been grandfathered in since they were signed within the limits of the prior CBA. Fix the issue moving forward.
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