Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar....

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Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar....

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:45 pm

Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar....Win a Cup?

After catching wind of Gillis' presser, the feeling I get is that

[*] He is still committed to this core and thinks this core can still be a contender
[*] He wants to go back to our 2008-2012 system of up-tempo fast-paced hockey

My question is this:

Do you think the Canucks could compete for a cup if they added a superstar forward (almost a franchise level guy) that could play with Kesler on a newly created top line, which would then move the twins and Burrows down to a second line where the twins and Burrows could play against and dominate weaker defensive pairings and weaker forwards?

If the answer to the above question is 'yes', then would you be willing to move both Horvat and Shinkaruk as the centerpiece to acquire said superstar?

P.s.______________The guy I have in mind by the way is Eric Staal. While he has struggled the past few seasons, a lot of it is probably related to the fact that he's been on bad Carolina teams. He probably is still one of the better players in the league. Carolina is looking to blow up their team and so he could be had.

Staal-Kesler-Kassian
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Matthias-Jensen
Gaunce-Richardson-Hansen

Hamhuis-Garrison
Tanev-Bieksa
Edler-Corrado

Lack
Markstrom

Having Staal here would ensure that if one of the top Canuck centers got injured, we'd have atleast two of Henrik, Kesler, or Staal to maintain depth.

Would it be worth "going for it" even if we risk depleting our farm and ending up like Toronto and Calgary?

Would this current Canuck team, when healthy, and playing under their old system + adding a superstar by depleting the farm...........give us a shot at winning a cup with this core?
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:49 pm

No
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:53 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:No


Probably my feeling as well.

I figured I ask the question however.

Gills does seem committed to this core if his presser was of any indication.

If that's the case, the I'm trying to figure out ways as to how this core can possibly compete for a cup.
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby Hockey Widow » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:26 pm

He didn't at all seem committed to the core. He said the problems run deep and the entire team under performed. Said the problems would be corrected. No where did he say his usual he likes the core or thinks this core can win. What he said was he wants to get back too a playing style he believes is correct and can win, but didn't say with the same core.

Past seasons he has always defended the core or coach or both. Today he wasn't defending anyone nor did he blame anyone.

But to your question, well it's the same old problem. We have had a top 4-5 but not a top 6. I personally don't card how he does it, I just want a top six. If he can do that with Kesler fine, if not trade him now.
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby Zamboni Driver » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:44 pm

The Brown Knight wrote: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar....Win a Cup?

After catching wind of Gillis' presser, the feeling I get is that

[*] He is still committed to this core and thinks this core can still be a contender
[*] He wants to go back to our 2008-2012 system of up-tempo fast-paced hockey

My question is this:

Do you think the Canucks could compete for a cup if they added a superstar forward (almost a franchise level guy) that could play with Kesler on a newly created top line, which would then move the twins and Burrows down to a second line where the twins and Burrows could play against and dominate weaker defensive pairings and weaker forwards?


Yes

The Brown Knight wrote:
If the answer to the above question is 'yes', then would you be willing to move both Horvat and Shinkaruk as the centerpiece to acquire said superstar?


No
We went to a load of trouble to get Horvat, don't trade the farm. :?

Do we want another Barry Pederson for Cam Neely & Glen Wesley, er, make that Pederson for Neely & Lucic :shock:

Better idea, now that MG has freed up cap space, go after a top six forward in free agency.
Maybe Matt Moulson or something like that
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby Island Nucklehead » Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:27 am

Hockey Widow wrote:He didn't at all seem committed to the core. He said the problems run deep and the entire team under performed. Said the problems would be corrected. No where did he say his usual he likes the core or thinks this core can win. What he said was he wants to get back too a playing style he believes is correct and can win, but didn't say with the same core.


Even if he got the green light to blow this whole carcass right to smithereens, with all the NTC's he's doled out, chances are he couldn't.

He committed the Sedins for 4 more years, so it's completely reasonable to get back to that style that made us successful, in fact his job (if he keeps it) depends on it. IMO, I see this as a shot accross the bow at ownership. Fire me, or get the fuck out of my way. They foisted Torts on him: GM hires sleep doctors to optimize road trip flight times, coach makes decisions with his gut; GM preaches calm, collected, cerebral hockey; coach invades opponents dressing rooms. They obviously don't work with each other, Gillis is trying to stay ahead of the curve (which has been pretty "curvey" the past couple seasons) and Torts is a 'his way or the highway' type coach.

I can't fathom a scenario where Gillis would have thought Torts an optimal coach for this team. Ownership wanted to kick the country club atmosphere (like many fans, myself included) and they didn't do their homework on what kind of team he would require to optimize HIS system. Why couldn't we get a hard-ass motherfucker to bitch-slap players while DEMANDING they play an offensive/puck-control game? I'm sure Mike Babcock isn't a pleasant person when he's mad at you... Anyways.

Coach/system first. If we get back to being an offensively-oriented team, and IF Kesler decides to give it an honest shot, then I would look at adding a bona-fide talent to his wing. A "hockey trade" with Edler seems to make the most sense to me.
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:55 am

Ya if only we had made that Nyquist, Mantha Smith rumoured deal for Edler. If it true I mean :mrgreen:

But maybe now we could get Tartar, smith and a prospect other that Mantha.

The rumoured deal at the deadline for Edler was:

http://www.csnne.com/blog/bruins-talk/w ... ens-kesler

Not so sure it would have been a good deal for us.
Last edited by Hockey Widow on Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby ukcanuck » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:09 am

Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar....Win a Cup?


YES ! With Jesus Christ anything is possible... :mex:
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby The Brown Knight » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:59 am

Hockey Widow wrote:He didn't at all seem committed to the core. He said the problems run deep and the entire team under performed. Said the problems would be corrected. No where did he say his usual he likes the core or thinks this core can win. What he said was he wants to get back too a playing style he believes is correct and can win, but didn't say with the same core.


Oh ok, I see.

I didn't actually watch/listen to the interview and only caught the gist of what Gillis was saying.

Here's my problem with Gillis wanting to go back to the old style: He's spent the better part of two years beefing up this line up while getting rid of the skill. Is this Canucks team capable of even playing the old way?.......especially if they start getting rid of core pieces that were a part of that 2011 Cup run?

I mean - Gillis may as well stick to this "own the wall" direction a la LA/St.Louis/Boston given the direction he seems to have gone in these past two years.

If you turn back now, you've pretty much wasted these past two years.
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby Meds » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:20 am

The Brown Knight wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:He didn't at all seem committed to the core. He said the problems run deep and the entire team under performed. Said the problems would be corrected. No where did he say his usual he likes the core or thinks this core can win. What he said was he wants to get back too a playing style he believes is correct and can win, but didn't say with the same core.


Oh ok, I see.

I didn't actually watch/listen to the interview and only caught the gist of what Gillis was saying.

Here's my problem with Gillis wanting to go back to the old style: He's spent the better part of two years beefing up this line up while getting rid of the skill. Is this Canucks team capable of even playing the old way?.......especially if they start getting rid of core pieces that were a part of that 2011 Cup run?

I mean - Gillis may as well stick to this "own the wall" direction a la LA/St.Louis/Boston given the direction he seems to have gone in these past two years.

If you turn back now, you've pretty much wasted these past two years.


What skill has he sacrificed in exchange for size and toughness?

Hodgson for Kassian? Hodgson doesn't even know where his own zone is and he was a nightmare in the making (just look at is current deal). Kassian brings size, intensity, grit, strength, and he does have a high level of skill. At the time of that trade Hodgson didn't belong in Vancouver as the only minutes he could play were sheltered offensive zone shifts on the 3rd line.

Letting Ehrhoff go? 'Hoff wasn't worth that bonus money that he got up front from Buffalo. His cap hit is very nice, but the actual dollars paid out were retarded over the first couple years of his deal.

Salo? No way could Vancouver afford to pay Salo what he was asking.....especially for only half a season worth of games.

Those were all financial decisions, even the Hodgson trade was probably made with half an eye towards the headache that potential contract negotiations might be.
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:56 am

^^^
Exactly. Getting bigger, tougher, harder to play against does not automatically mean getting less skilled. I think he is just done drafting JS types and is looking for bigger skilled bodies.
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby The Brown Knight » Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:13 am

Hockey Widow wrote:^^^
Exactly. Getting bigger, tougher, harder to play against does not automatically mean getting less skilled. I think he is just done drafting JS types and is looking for bigger skilled bodies.


True,

I didn't mean otherwise.

But guys like Matthias, Kassian, etc., aren't exactly speedsters out there. To play the time of puck possession game that the Canucks had in 2011, requires significant overall team speed does it not?
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:27 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:^^^
Exactly. Getting bigger, tougher, harder to play against does not automatically mean getting less skilled. I think he is just done drafting JS types and is looking for bigger skilled bodies.


True,

I didn't mean otherwise.

But guys like Matthias, Kassian, etc., aren't exactly speedsters out there. To play the time of puck possession game that the Canucks had in 2011, requires significant overall team speed does it not?



Yes we need team speed to play that game for sure. But you can have a few pluggers if they bring other skill sets. Look at the twins, their game us not built on speed. Although I wouldn't call them pluggers either. But they have a skill set that compliments the speed game and puck possession game.
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby Meds » Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:37 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:^^^
Exactly. Getting bigger, tougher, harder to play against does not automatically mean getting less skilled. I think he is just done drafting JS types and is looking for bigger skilled bodies.


True,

I didn't mean otherwise.

But guys like Matthias, Kassian, etc., aren't exactly speedsters out there. To play the time of puck possession game that the Canucks had in 2011, requires significant overall team speed does it not?


I would venture to say that all three of those guys you mentioned are as fast, or faster, than the Sedins.....who were a HUGE part of our puck possession game in 2011. Puck possession means having the skill and smarts to protect the puck and control it. The Sedins have always had good skating ability but average or below average speed, but they have always had the smarts and skill to make up for that and control the puck better than most in the league.
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Re: Going For It - Can this core with Old System + Superstar

Postby herb » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:49 pm

Playing a faster puck possession style doesn't mean skating really quick all over the place. It's about making quick decisions, moving the puck lots, using the D more and getting the puck up the ice faster by passing which puts the opposition more on their heels. You want the other team reacting instead of having time to set-up, like what the Ducks do to us when we play them. :D

Matthias and Kassian are good skaters, IMO.
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