Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

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Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:17 am

Back

Hank Sedin
Dank Sedin
Alex Burrows
Zack Kassian
Brad Richardson
Shawn Matthias
Tom Sestito
Nicklas Jensen

Bieksa
Hamhius
Tanev
Stanton
Garrison (unfortunately)

Lack
Markstrom

Out

Kesler
Higgins
Hansen
Dalpe
Schroeder
Booth

Edler
Weber

I tossed the idea of buying out Garrison instead Booth but I understand buying out Garrison is a bit expensive. Unless by some miracle you could trade Booth for pucks then buyout Garrison.
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby Mr.Miyagi » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:40 am

I agree with most of your ideas, except I would probably keep Higgins and Booth.

Higgins is a great 3rd liner that can fill in on the 2nd line if needed. He has a cap friendly contract with (I think) a no movement clause. I think the return would have to be significant to let him go.

As for Booth, he has played his way back on the team IMO. Does he deserve the contract he has? No way ... but with an increasing salary cap and lack of high quality free agents heading into July he is probably worth more to the team than having his cap space freed up.

Kesler stays, too. He is worth way more to this team than any possible return coming back that was thrown out around the deadline. Unless teams really up their offers ... he will be a Canuck in October.

Just my thoughts ...
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby Arachnid » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:51 am

Well is it a complete rebuild or a tweak?

Sounds like more of a tweak from you...we have these young guys coming up and we need to make room we also have Dank & Kes to show them the ropes...everyone one else is expendable (except the defence corps, not easy to replace unless through trade FA).
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:52 am

If Higgins was meaner, if he was a bigger, if he was faster, if he was more offensively talented I'd like him. He's the classic meh player. My biggest beef with Higgins is that he disappears in the big games. Good guy not enough junkyard
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby ukcanuck » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:18 pm

RoyalDude wrote:If Higgins was meaner, if he was a bigger, if he was faster, if he was more offensively talented I'd like him. He's the classic meh player. My biggest beef with Higgins is that he disappears in the big games. Good guy not enough junkyard


You forget Santorelli?

And the only way I'd consider not keeping Kesler is if he demands a trade.

I do want Booth gone though. he just aint worth the contract and we need space for rooks
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby The Brown Knight » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:57 pm

There's a part of me that hopes that the twins either retire or get traded to a team that has a shit load of cap space and is not looking for a semblance of veteran leadership so that the kids can 'ease in' to the system easier.

Simultaneously - Kesler commits to the Canucks long term and becomes our new mentor for the next generation.

So basically - we keep everything as is, sans twins.

Realistically though - it won't happen. Our smartest move is in moving Kesler.
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The Opposite of a Rebuild? (i.e. Out = Booth, In = Superst

Postby The Brown Knight » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:10 pm

The Opposite of a Rebuild? (i.e. Out = Booth, In = Superstar)

Here's a think out loud scenario.............and keep in mind, that I'm not a proponent of this idea, but am merely hypothesizing:

What if the Canucks did the OPPOSITE of a rebuild, and instead, traded Horvat, Shinkaruk, and a 1st rounder to acquire a superstar to play alongside Ryan Kesler in a newly created first line?

Jensen-SUPERSTAR-Kesler
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Matthias-Kassian
Gaunce-Richardson-Sestito

Hamhuis-Garrison
Tanev-Bieksa
Edler-Weber

Lack
Markstrom

The rationale behind this thought is that:

1) The twins, when 100% healthy, are no longer first line superstar players, but can still be very good 2nd liners:
2) Kesler, with a new superstar line-mate, can anchor the teams' new first line
3) This Canuck team is better than they really are and were simply plagued with freak injuries this year.
4) Guys like Jensen, Gaunce, etc., can step up from a youth/prospect side of things:

If Carolina for instance, is thinking about blowing up their team and Eric Staal is available, then.........create a package?

Again - I'm not a proponent of this idea or concept, but am just hypothesizing the idea of the Canucks "going for it" by bringing sacrificing their farm for a first line superstar player to play alongside Kesler which would then relegate the twins to a 2nd line role where they are probably better off being in at this stage in their careers.
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby nuckster » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:27 pm

It's really a shame that Gillis re-signed the Sedins for as much as he did. Obviously different players are able to produce into their mid to late 30's, but some really don't.

I took a quick look at Naslund's stats in conjunction with his age and compared them to Daniel, here's what ya see:

Naslund
AGE PTS Year
29 104 02/03
30 84 03/04
31 79 05/06
32 60 06/07
33 46 08/09
34 - Rangers

Daniel
Age Pts Year
30 104 10/11
31 67 11/12
32 40 12/13
33 42 13/14
34 ?



Nazzy had the class and where-with-all to call it a day, even though he was more productive than the Sedins were at 33. Yes I know injuries are a factor that should be factored into the equation, but even still, we're talking a very likely drop-off in production regardless. Here we are in a position where it's quite conceivable to find the Sedin's productive days behind them and Gillis has them on contact for 4 years at 7 million per! Unbelievable!

So, is it realistic/sound to embrace the Sedin's as our 'number one's' going forward?? Probably not. Will it happen? Probably. Gillis will likely be be inclined to try to justify his endorsement of their contracts. Too bad. Many of us could see the decline happening in front of our eyes w/o letting the 'glory days' cloud the perspective.

If I may add another piece (just slightly off topic but relevant), it was completely evident at the end of last season that we were in dire need of scoring and what did Gillis do? He lucked out with Santorelli before he got hurt, but Richards, Sestito and Dalpe, didn't account for any kind of meaningful resolution to the offense issue; and most assuredly, Torts sure wasn't an answer either. Truth be known, Torts really comes across as a 'one trick pony' and I'm not convinced he knows how to work with rookies either.

In conclusion, we're likely going to see more of a decline with the Sedins (due to age), and though it's great that we can anticipate some 'up an comers' making the roster this coming year, I would count Gillis and Torts as two more for the OUT list. Please please Aquaman.
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby Cornuck » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:36 pm

I'm not quite ready to write the Sedins off. The main reason for that is their great conditioning. I also think that they have too much pride to just slowly die off and cash checks.

I'll see what we get out of them next year. Hopefully that's a full season together and a full season with a triplet, whether that's Burrows or not. I'm not predicting a Ross with their name on it, but I'm sure there's life in those two yet.

Also it's been my fear since they were signed, that if one was injured/retired/sucking - then the other is locked into that fate as well. We've seen Hank respond, but Daniel...?... not yet. If all goes well, they'll earn the top line back or they'll falter and be a very good to great 2nd line.

Cap space would be nice, but I'm not going to bitch about the 7 per (ask me again in 2 years) - they've been a bargain almost all of their time here and now they're collecting.
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby SKYO » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:54 pm

Sedins still leading team in points even on a shitty year for them injury wise, yeah lets get rid of em. smh
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:13 pm

Cornuck wrote:I'm not quite ready to write the Sedins off. The main reason for that is their great conditioning. I also think that they have too much pride to just slowly die off and cash checks.

I'll see what we get out of them next year. Hopefully that's a full season together and a full season with a triplet, whether that's Burrows or not. I'm not predicting a Ross with their name on it, but I'm sure there's life in those two yet.

Cap space would be nice, but I'm not going to bitch about the 7 per (ask me again in 2 years) - they've been a bargain almost all of their time here and now they're collecting.


Pretty much this.

Next year we'll know if the injury-plagued season becomes the normal thanks to aging, or if they can bounce back to healthy consistency.

If they don't, it's not like it will matter. I'd rather spend the $14M combined and watch them lead the team to the bottom with dignity than bring in some more expensive UFA's to do the same. Basically, if the Sedins don't rebound, we're in for more than just a re-tool. If they can rebound, we could be back to the playoffs in a year or two.
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby ClamRussel » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:32 pm

The Sedins aren't going anywhere. In fact, the way Booth & Burrows have played of late, if they are consistent to the end of the season there's a good chance they aren't going anywhere either. People talk about these buyout decisions like they're switching from Shaw to Telus. The cap is going up & I don't think the Aquas are too fond of paying players not to play (ie not buying out Lu to keep Cory). Higgins isn't going anywhere soon except hopefully the 3rd line in a swap w/ Kassian.
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby ClamRussel » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:35 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:Next year we'll know if the injury-plagued season becomes the normal thanks to aging, or if they can bounce back to healthy consistency.


For starters, hopefully the coaching staff has learned that less is more when it comes to their icetime/penalty killing/blocking shots etc. Then, and only then, will we have a true indication.
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:49 pm

ClamRussel wrote:For starters, hopefully the coaching staff has learned that less is more when it comes to their icetime/penalty killing/blocking shots etc. Then, and only then, will we have a true indication.


2 more second liners (a whole second line if we trade Kesler) would go a long way to balancing out the icetime, imo.

I agree about the PK. Maybe in extended circumstances, to avoid siting them on the bench for 6-8 minute stretches, but they shouldn't be the 1st or 2nd PK unit. We should have enough tweeners for those roles.
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Re: Back in 2014/15. Out in 2014/15

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:17 pm

The moment MG re-signed the twins to 4 year deals the writing was on the wall, for good or for bad. I wanted them re-signed but would have been happier with a two year deal. Whatever, they will be here for 4 more. The statement has been made that the re-tool/re-build is going to be around them. The good news in all of that is that we have 4 years to re-tool not only a second line but to get their replacements ready.

The bad is that if they can't recover from this season we have a 14 million dollar anchor to weather. I am in the camp that says this year is a horrendous anomaly brought on in part by injuries and that mysterious bug that has bitten the whole team. They will bounce back next year.

But here is the thing, even if Burrows bounces back with them we still need a sevond line to support them. Something that we have never truly had. They were great support for the WCE but we haven't had a consistent, healthy enough 2nd line to support their play.

I love Kesler. I would like him to retire a Canuck. But realistically he gives us the best shot at are-tooling to try and find that elusive 2nd line, and a new first line 4 years from now,

We have sufficient pieces, when healthy to ice a good competitive bottom six. But we don't have enough pieces, even with Kesler, to ice a good 2nd line and prospects we can continue to develop so we have a smooth transition in 4 years. When the WCE was done, the twins were there. That is what we need to keep our eye on.

This core is done. They won't get back to the finals. I have accepted that and I am OK with that. I don't want to be stuck in nostalgia waiting for a repeat of 2011 that isn't coming. The best option for moving forward, both in the short term and long term, are in trading two members of the core for those pieces. The pieces that can step in next year and develop over the next couple of years. Those two core members that will garner the most are Kesler and Edler. We certainly have the depth to absorb the loss of Edler and the same is true for Kesler. The pieces we get back for those two will include at least one top six, a bottom 4 on D and a good prospect or two and hopefully a draft pick or two.

We get cheaper, younger and hopefully pick up some offensive skill.

Add to that that over the next 2-4 years the prospects we have now will be developing and hopefully some of hem will pan out.

Jettison Booth. Those are the only changes I think we need to make. Next season we won't be a contender but I think we should be more competitive and if competitive then anything can happen.

If any of the rumoured returns for Kesler and Edler are true I think we should see a quick re-tool.

What is not an option IMHO is staying the course and hoping one or two of the young guys step up. Torts doesn't have the patience to go that route and we don't have the time. This was the season we were going to do that. No excuses next season. No blaming a changing CBA or a lowering of the cap. MG has got to get this right. If not I will be a full fledged Dude convert.
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