What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

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I Chose For MY Canucks...

Cheer annoyingly and blissfully ignorant they will not only make the playoffs but win Lord Stanley's Holly Grail
5
14%
Be a realist and cheer for them to lose and get the best draft pick they can. Let's get the rebuild on!
4
11%
Pray to God that he will use his eternal energy (while others die) to help them squeak into the post-season
2
6%
Get more Sestito's on the team because we need more toughness, not young stud low drafted scoring machines
1
3%
Resigning Alex Burrows and David Booth is priority above all else
1
3%
Cheer for the Leafs to fail and not make the playoffs thereby making us look like winners for trying harder
5
14%
Let Hockey Gods sort it out, there's beer to be sacrificed!-Who gives a shit, it's Bettman's world, we just live in it
5
14%
Post Tank it Torts™ as much as possible to annoy people and make them lose it
2
6%
Hope they barely make the playoffs so we can have a crap draft pick and get blown out in 1st round
2
6%
Get through the season without any injuries
8
23%
 
Total votes : 35

Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Strangelove » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:40 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:I disagree. Do you think the Sedins will EVER be able to play that style of game? I don't. They are cerebral players, not bulls. They cycle the puck well, but theirs isn't a dump/chase/muck/grind game. As long as we have the Sedins as 2/3 of our top line we won't be able to fully implement such a system.


Oh bs, Sedins just need someone to go get them the puck.

Someone like.... Kassian! :thumbs:

Besides, Torts DOES allow for them to carry the puck in on occasion.

And hopefully he's now figured out it makes sense (within his system) to give them more Ozone starts.

Also Torts has shown no qualms about splitting them up, if that's what it takes.


Island Nucklehead wrote:We committed to a core that was designed to play a skill game... why not let them play their skill game?


When it comes to forwards, the core consists of 4.

And aren't you are one of the many who thinks that 2 of them will be gone?

Transition time is a good time to change the system, no?

(although if Torts remains I believe he will adjust his system somewhat).

Island Nucklehead wrote:IMO, the drive for size and toughness was overblown when we lost to Boston.


....

Island Nucklehead wrote:I do think that Gillis is moving the team in the St Louis/LA direction with his drafting and acquisitions, big forwards that own the corners and the walls.


So are you in favour of "the drive for size and toughness"?

The Great Strangelove has been pushing for more size and toughness since Todd Bertuzzi left town.

Okay, longer than that.

The Great Strangelove scoffed at the MANY who believed that the "New NHL" had arrived.

Remember the "New NHL"? :lol:

Size and toughness will always be a factor in the game of hockey.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Cornuck » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:59 pm

Strangelove wrote:The Great Strangelove scoffed at the MANY who believed that the "New NHL" had arrived.


Too bad one of the believers was Gillis. He really lost a year or two believing that Bettman Bullshit.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:17 pm

ukcanuck wrote:More media bullshit, the Sedins have never been speedy skaters they rely on passing and working along the boards and in the corners there is no reason why their natural game cannot complement three other lines that are continually running over and through people. Imagine other teams sighing with relief to get the Sedin line only to have twist their tired body in knots trying to get the puck back...


The problem is that they don't play that speed game. The way these teams play is to get the puck in deep and force the play to the boards. It's either dumped in and attempt to force a turnover, or take it wide and drive the net off the rush. Neither works with the Sedins, who prefer to carry it in, set up, and make a skill play towards the slot. They don't use their bodies to crash the net (where Burrows fits) and they aren't fast enough to get in on the forcheck if they are forced to dump it in.

UK wrote:I dont think losing the stanley cup to a physically and mentally tougher team was overblown at all... That Canuck team had all kinds of trouble with physical play, it was plain to see.


And yet they had little trouble with Nasvhille and the Ben Eager-wielding San Jose Sharks. They survived those physical series easier than they did the openning round nail-biter vs a skilled Chicago. Yes, they lost game 7, and the cup, to a bigger, tougher team. But do you not think had Kesler not crippled himself earlier, had Hamhuis not gone for that hipcheck etc, that that skilled team could have won the cup? I think it's more likely than asking that roster to play a style of game they were ill-suited to.


UK wrote:why do you think that? before the injuries mounted up we played that game quite well, the teams weakness right now is depth. add a few pieces here and there and we are well on our way.


vs. Anaheim 0-3-1
vs. LA 0-3-1
vs. San Jose 1-3-1

These are the teams in our division that we are up against for playoff spots, and it's quite obvious we are not in the same class, especially when we try to play like them.

I don't disagree that we may get there one day, playing a Big Bad Bruins style of muck and grind, meat and potatoes hockey. I'm not even OPPOSED to moving in that direction, but I don't think it will be with Daniel and Henrik as the focal points of our offence, and given our roster makeup, it would have made more sense to double down on skill vs a complete culture shift.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby SKYO » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:52 pm

Once and IF we get a new GM he will look at how this team went from cup contenders in 2011 to pretenders in 2014....

He will instantly see we need a QB dman and a 2nd line overhaul, plus room for Jensen and one of Horvat/Fox/Gaunce to get a roster spot, a much needed injection of youth.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:19 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
The problem is that they don't play that speed game. The way these teams play is to get the puck in deep and force the play to the boards. It's either dumped in and attempt to force a turnover, or take it wide and drive the net off the rush. Neither works with the Sedins, who prefer to carry it in, set up, and make a skill play towards the slot. They don't use their bodies to crash the net (where Burrows fits) and they aren't fast enough to get in on the forcheck if they are forced to dump it in.


Who said anything about forcing the Sedins to dump and chase? We are talking about changing the team from having too many perimeter players who look good during the regular season when officiating is tighter but who can't pay the price to stand in front of the net or the slot to take those fancy behind the back seeing eye passes the Sedins are famous for.
The suggestion that the Sedins can only be successful playing one way is kind of stupid, they have adapted and changed and added to their game since they got here as red headed kids who could t skate fast enough and could only kill penalties ....I think they will manage just fine thank you.

island knucklehead wrote:
And yet they had little trouble with Nasvhille and the Ben Eager-wielding San Jose Sharks. They survived those physical series easier than they did the openning round nail-biter vs a skilled Chicago. Yes, they lost game 7, and the cup, to a bigger, tougher team. But do you not think had Kesler not crippled himself earlier, had Hamhuis not gone for that hipcheck etc, that that skilled team could have won the cup? I think it's more likely than asking that roster to play a style of game they were ill-suited to.


The above is opinion and revisionist and at the end of the day they lost the Cup in part because they were injured and didn't have the strength to finish out the Bruins in game six.
Not tough or physical enough...


island knucklehead wrote:
vs. Anaheim 0-3-1
vs. LA 0-3-1
vs. San Jose 1-3-1

These are the teams in our division that we are up against for playoff spots, and it's quite obvious we are not in the same class, especially when we try to play like them.

In the playoffs when the refs out the whistles away and turn a blind eye to obstruction which style of play do you think is going to succeed?
The answer is Boston, LA, Chicago...

island knucklehead wrote:I don't disagree that we may get there one day, playing a Big Bad Bruins style of muck and grind, meat and potatoes hockey. I'm not even OPPOSED to moving in that direction, but I don't think it will be with Daniel and Henrik as the focal points of our offence, and given our roster makeup, it would have made more sense to double down on skill vs a complete culture shift


We
Already had that team and it failed to win a cup in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013.... Have you ever heard the definition of crazy
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby RoyalDude » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:26 pm

Cornuck wrote:
Strangelove wrote:The Great Strangelove scoffed at the MANY who believed that the "New NHL" had arrived.


Too bad one of the believers was Gillis. He really lost a year or two believing that Bettman Bullshit.


So it's Bettmans fault why we suck?
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:41 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Brown Knight wrote:Agreed. The team just smacks of denial. Refusal to accept their current place in the pecking order, no real desire to change or re-set. While injuries undoubtedly have lowered our output this season, the trend has been curing downward for well over a year. All the interviews have the same responses "embarassing, rock bottom, need to be better", but no change is happening.

I also don't see Kesler re-upping here, especially if we're not a competitive second-round team.

End the drama. Move Kesler and/or Edler at the draft, start next season fresh with new faces in core places on the roster. Moving those two guys could easily net us 4-5 quality pieces



Hmmm second round team... getting past tough hard nosed teams like LA and San Jose and Anaheim?

Wonder what the strategy for that would be??


Uk,

That's not my quote yo.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:50 pm

ukcanuck wrote:We
Already had that team and it failed to win a cup in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013.... Have you ever heard the definition of crazy


3 of those 4 Canuck teams lost to the eventual cup-winner.
2 of those 4 Canuck teams won the Presidents' Trophy.
1 of 4 Canuck teams got within a game of winning it all.

I think the point Isle Knuck was trying to make, is that given how close this Canuck core was to winning it all, there was no need to make such drastic changes and completely overhaul our system from a skilled team to a wannabe LA/STL/Boston team.

Yes - the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again, but why not make slight changes while keeping the style of play that made you wildly successful?

By your logic, skilled teams like Detroit and Pittsburgh has no business winning cups within recent memory since they don't play an overly physical game. Ditto for the 2013 Chicago team.

By your logic, teams like San Jose and St. Louis should completely overhaul their systems and core values because they haven't won cups with their core players.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:58 pm

ukcanuck wrote:Who said anything about forcing the Sedins to dump and chase? We are talking about changing the team from having too many perimeter players who look good during the regular season when officiating is tighter but who can't pay the price to stand in front of the net or the slot to take those fancy behind the back seeing eye passes the Sedins are famous for.
The suggestion that the Sedins can only be successful playing one way is kind of stupid, they have adapted and changed and added to their game since they got here as red headed kids who could t skate fast enough and could only kill penalties ....I think they will manage just fine thank you.


How have the Sedins fared this season, under Torts? I'm not even going to put the injuries on him, but they have looked anything but dominant. Tortorella does not like the fancy plays the Sedin's are so great at. If your two best players are limited by the coach's system, I think you're using the wrong system. I mean, we used to be able to wait until the Playoffs to see the Sedins struggle. Playing Torts' style, we're unlikely to see the playoffs for some time.

Coach to your strengths, I say. Just because Gillis and Tortorella WANT this team to be big and mean and abrasive and young and fast doesn't make it so. This season is a perfect example of a style not fitting a roster.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:08 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:I think the point Isle Knuck was trying to make, is that given how close this Canuck core was to winning it all, there was no need to make such drastic changes and completely overhaul our system from a skilled team to a wannabe LA/STL/Boston team.


I think we would have been wiser to make a more incremental change to the team than we did. I think changing the coach after last season would have been sufficient, not the whole organizational philosophy. When Gillis got here he preached offense, and instructed AV to move away from a defensive-oriented system.

I figure ownership has their fingerprints all over the Torts hire, because for the life of my I can't fathom a scenario where Gillis would want a coach that wouldn't understand the strengths and weaknesses of the roster before deciding on a strategy to maximize their potential.

I am fine with Gillis making plays for bigger bodies, making the team better equipped to handle NHL playoff hockey. Totally fine with him adding toughness to the roster. It's this philosophy that we're going to be a hard-forechecking, crash the net team that I really don't understand. We don't have the roster for that style of game, certainly not when we're going up against some of the best in the league at that style.

Ultimately, we need to ask ourselves: What is the identity of this Canucks team? I don't think we have a good answer at the moment, and finding one is essential to getting back to contender status.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:10 pm

LMAO at the people still pencilling Kesler in for next season.

And LMAO at anyone lamenting over 2008-2011. That Canucks team while good would be middle of the pack in the Western Playoff race these days. Other than the Hawks there was no other big dog teams in the conference during that time. The California teams were not nearly as good as they are today and neither were the Blues. The Canucks shit the bed when it counted. Whether it was injuries, poor play, officiating or whatever its water under the bridge. Either way I get a kick out of a good team being remembered as better than they were.

There is no reason this team be built on size and skill. It doesn't have to be either or.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:19 pm

Torts got great goal production in Tampa. Torts was accused of stiffling the offence in NY.

Hard to say what Torts wants.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby nuckster » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:24 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:Ultimately, we need to ask ourselves: What is the identity of this Canucks team? I don't think we have a good answer at the moment, and finding one is essential to getting back to contender status.


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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:08 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:
Brown Knight wrote:Agreed. The team just smacks of denial. Refusal to accept their current place in the pecking order, no real desire to change or re-set. While injuries undoubtedly have lowered our output this season, the trend has been curing downward for well over a year. All the interviews have the same responses "embarassing, rock bottom, need to be better", but no change is happening.

I also don't see Kesler re-upping here, especially if we're not a competitive second-round team.

End the drama. Move Kesler and/or Edler at the draft, start next season fresh with new faces in core places on the roster. Moving those two guys could easily net us 4-5 quality pieces



Hmmm second round team... getting past tough hard nosed teams like LA and San Jose and Anaheim?

Wonder what the strategy for that would be??


Uk,

That's not my quote yo.


Sorry meant to put island knucklehead
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:25 pm

People are just dreaming in technicolor here.
I would be interested how said people were weighing in on the virtues of winning the presidents trophy at the time.
It was commonly held around these parts that without a Stanley cup they are meaningless. In the last five years this team playing how they were designed to play faltered every single playoffs. They got close once but close doesn't count either.

The identity of those teams were to play the perimeter game, work the officiating and ride the power play.

When they faced teams that iced players will to take bloody noses into the corners and clutch and grab and scratch and claw, the Canucks responded by whining and losing focus.

That was their identity and everyone wanted change, which is why Gillis fired AV and why he is on a plan to get younger and meaner.

Well younger and meaner means playing a style that wins and you don't have to look far to see it

And if you think Pitts and Detroit and Chicago aren't tough teams ... Lol watch who wins it all again
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