What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

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I Chose For MY Canucks...

Cheer annoyingly and blissfully ignorant they will not only make the playoffs but win Lord Stanley's Holly Grail
5
14%
Be a realist and cheer for them to lose and get the best draft pick they can. Let's get the rebuild on!
4
11%
Pray to God that he will use his eternal energy (while others die) to help them squeak into the post-season
2
6%
Get more Sestito's on the team because we need more toughness, not young stud low drafted scoring machines
1
3%
Resigning Alex Burrows and David Booth is priority above all else
1
3%
Cheer for the Leafs to fail and not make the playoffs thereby making us look like winners for trying harder
5
14%
Let Hockey Gods sort it out, there's beer to be sacrificed!-Who gives a shit, it's Bettman's world, we just live in it
5
14%
Post Tank it Torts™ as much as possible to annoy people and make them lose it
2
6%
Hope they barely make the playoffs so we can have a crap draft pick and get blown out in 1st round
2
6%
Get through the season without any injuries
8
23%
 
Total votes : 35

Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:42 am

Meds wrote:
Mondi wrote:Give me a second line built around Kesler (or a return for Kesler) and a stupidly overpriced UFA who is signed for 2 years only.

Give me a third line of Horvat, Kassian, and Jensen (or Shinkaruk)

Give me a forth line of Richardson, Higgins (or Hansen), and Santorelli (who can spot on 2L or 3L when they start to slump, as they will).


If said overpriced UFA is of the playmaking winger variety then I'm thinking either of Jensen or Shinkaruk can play on that line. More likely Jensen.

Dank - Hank - Burrows
UFA - Kesler - Jensen
Shinkaruk - Horvat - Kassian
Richardson- Mathias - Hansen
Sestito

Higgins and Santorelli gone as they don't belong on a 4th line. Package Higgins with Edler and Schroeder and get a good return.

Give me a defence built around Bieksa, Hamhuis, Tanev, and Stanton. Bring in two 35 year old war horses who don't take shit in front of the next. Or bring back Erhoff, or someone like him.


Our blueline is the toughest place to make changes as all of our top 4 guys have NTC's. Bieksa, Hamhuis, and Garrison, are almost certainly not going to waive. Bieksa is the only one with a full NTC though. Edler could probably be convinced to waive.

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Garrison - Tanev
Stanton - _______


You think its wise to assume that three or four rookies are going to make the team out of camp next year?
it would be great but I think that hatching eggs first is more prudent
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby herb » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:01 am

ukcanuck wrote:You think its wise to assume that three or four rookies are going to make the team out of camp next year?
it would be great but I think that hatching eggs first is more prudent


This is an argument I have been having with myself.

On the one hand you want your prospects to be ready before they are inserted into the roster. On the other hand, you need space on your roster to give the kids a shot. You don't want David Booth and Zac Dalpe taking up valuable rosters spaces next season, IMO. Last year Gillis blew it when he picked up Dalpe and Welsh on the last day of camp as it mean Shinkaruk and Horvat had zero chance, despite having pretty good camps.

At this point I am willing to sacrifice some certainty in order to give the kids an opening or three. Opening up two or three spots on the roster still means that guys like Gaunce, Fox, Grenier and Lain are on the farm fighting to be that next call up. Filling up the roster with veterans would be a mistake at this juncture.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby herb » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:18 am

I would be happy to roll with something like this to start the year:

Jensen-Hank-Burrows
Dank-NewCenter-Shinkaruk
Matthias-Horvat-Kassian
Higgins-Richardson-Hansen
Santorelli-Sestito

The new center would be somebody we pick up in a Kesler and/or Edler trade. This would give us some question marks, but also some versatility, depth and roster space to cycle Jensen, Shinkaruk, Horvat, Gaunce, Fox, Grenier and Lain through the roster as conditions require. It would also make the team a hell of a lot more interesting to watch than another veteran laden team that squeezes the kids out.

I have a hard time believing at least two of Jensen, Shinkaruk, Horvat, Gaunce, Fox and Grenier won't show enough in camp to make the team given the state of the franchise and where we clearly need to head.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:36 am

If I remember rightly Torts lamented not being able to keep the kids up saying they weren't ready...

I don't want to see anyone rushed in their development to fulfill a numbers game. As far as I'm concerned I'd rather see a roster of players that earned the sport regardless whether they are vets journeymen or rookies.

Hopefully 3 of Horvat, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Jensen and Corrado earn spots...

There are other considerations too, will there be a young gun and old guard division in the room, which players will bridge the gap between greybeard Sedins and party on dude 20 somethings?
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby herb » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:49 am

ukcanuck wrote:If I remember rightly Torts lamented not being able to keep the kids up saying they weren't ready...

I don't want to see anyone rushed in their development to fulfill a numbers game. As far as I'm concerned I'd rather see a roster of players that earned the sport regardless whether they are vets journeymen or rookies.

Hopefully 3 of Horvat, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Jensen and Corrado earn spots...

There are other considerations too, will there be a young gun and old guard division in the room, which players will bridge the gap between greybeard Sedins and party on dude 20 somethings?


They were sent down after Dalpe, Welsh and Stanton were picked up.

They wouldn't be rushed. Nobody's talking about handing them spots, it's about leaving spots available so that whoever makes the team can actually get a chance to play.

Horvat probably shouldn't go back to Junior and he's not AHL eligible so hopefully he makes the team. Shinkaruk was robbed of an opportunity to save a year on his ELC even though he looked ready to at least be given a look. Jensen has already shown he can be useful here.

I really don't think we would be taking much of a risk leaving a couple of spots open. If Shinkaruk or Jensen look bad send them down, move Santorelli and Higgins up in the lineup and call up Gaunce or whoever. If Horvat doesn't make the team, move Matthias back over to center.

There would be lots of options with this approach, and a whole lot fewer options if we filled out the roster with Milan Michalek or whoever.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Hockey Widow » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:17 pm

The number of available spots would depend upon the bodies we move out and who we get in return via trade. If we trade a core player one would assume you have a least one roster player coming back.

But even with a trade or two we still have roster room to add some kids. The biggest problem with that is that unless they prove to be outstanding in all facets of the game I somehow sense they end up playing 4 minutes on the 4th line.

In other words, I don't want these kids to end up being Dalpe replacements. If we are not committed to putting them in a position to win and live with their learning curve they are better suited to be on Utica. Look at Jensen. Why is he on the 4th line when we need scoring? Why is he not getting the minutes? If this is how we can expect the kids to be used then we continue to see bottom six trying to play top six again next year.

It has to be an organizational commitment and a philosophy of development. Not the Oiler approach of throwing everyone into the fire, we are better than that. But I wonder if Torts has it in him to stop riding your best players for 20-25 minutes every night and to start using his bench more.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby nuckster » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:25 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:The number of available spots would depend upon the bodies we move out and who we get in return via trade. If we trade a core player one would assume you have a least one roster player coming back.

But even with a trade or two we still have roster room to add some kids. The biggest problem with that is that unless they prove to be outstanding in all facets of the game I somehow sense they end up playing 4 minutes on the 4th line.

In other words, I don't want these kids to end up being Dalpe replacements. If we are not committed to putting them in a position to win and live with their learning curve they are better suited to be on Utica. Look at Jensen. Why is he on the 4th line when we need scoring? Why is he not getting the minutes? If this is how we can expect the kids to be used then we continue to see bottom six trying to play top six again next year.

It has to be an organizational commitment and a philosophy of development. Not the Oiler approach of throwing everyone into the fire, we are better than that. But I wonder if Torts has it in him to stop riding your best players for 20-25 minutes every night and to start using his bench more.


I recall that Tort's said early on ...duh, maybe it was Gillis? I can't remember for sure. BUT, the 'word' on Tort's was that he was supposed to be good with the young up-an-comers. Frankly, I don't believe it. There is basically no evidence to support that view. Many have been perplexed by how he has handled Kassian. The potential was there to involve Kass on the powerplay, if not the first powerplay line, then the second - but NOPE. Jensen comes up, gets the Nuck masses all excited with what he can do, and "back of the bus" ya go! Tort's comes across as a desperate coach looking to ride his one trick pony for all its worth; if some of the Sedin's is good, then more must be better! I know that no matter what I say on here, there's still going to be pro-Tort bloggers who will offer an opposing point of view. But really, I sincerely hope that he is gone within days after the end of the season!

An article in the local news media makes what I think is a good point, Tort's failed to accommodate his hockey system to the type of players that are on the Canuck's roster, and AV did. What comes to my mind is when the Nonis tenure came to an end, we had only achieved success up to that point in time by being superly defensively responsible, and Luongo was in a position to back us up. As soon as Gillis came in, the word was ownership wanted a more offensive - upbeat game. Could AV deliver this? He did.

Unfortunately for AV, and the Canucks in general, it was obvious that we no longer really had the horses to provide the scoring we needed, and Gillis really didn't deliver in the off-season (didn't bring in any real goal scoreres). But truthfully, with Tort's in the drivers seat I don't know if it would have made any difference anyways.

So what do i really want - a new coach, a new GM, and some trades involving our core - an that's the order of my preferences.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Strangelove » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:55 pm

nuckster wrote:An article in the local news media makes what I think is a good point


Well there's your problem right there.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Boston Canucker » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:36 am

Let's get that #6 pick. It's good to have clear objectives. Stink for Six, let's get it done boys.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:26 am

nuckster wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:The number of available spots would depend upon the bodies we move out and who we get in return via trade. If we trade a core player one would assume you have a least one roster player coming back.

But even with a trade or two we still have roster room to add some kids. The biggest problem with that is that unless they prove to be outstanding in all facets of the game I somehow sense they end up playing 4 minutes on the 4th line.

In other words, I don't want these kids to end up being Dalpe replacements. If we are not committed to putting them in a position to win and live with their learning curve they are better suited to be on Utica. Look at Jensen. Why is he on the 4th line when we need scoring? Why is he not getting the minutes? If this is how we can expect the kids to be used then we continue to see bottom six trying to play top six again next year.

It has to be an organizational commitment and a philosophy of development. Not the Oiler approach of throwing everyone into the fire, we are better than that. But I wonder if Torts has it in him to stop riding your best players for 20-25 minutes every night and to start using his bench more.


I recall that Tort's said early on ...duh, maybe it was Gillis? I can't remember for sure. BUT, the 'word' on Tort's was that he was supposed to be good with the young up-an-comers. Frankly, I don't believe it. There is basically no evidence to support that view. Many have been perplexed by how he has handled Kassian. The potential was there to involve Kass on the powerplay, if not the first powerplay line, then the second - but NOPE. Jensen comes up, gets the Nuck masses all excited with what he can do, and "back of the bus" ya go! Tort's comes across as a desperate coach looking to ride his one trick pony for all its worth; if some of the Sedin's is good, then more must be better! I know that no matter what I say on here, there's still going to be pro-Tort bloggers who will offer an opposing point of view. But really, I sincerely hope that he is gone within days after the end of the season!

An article in the local news media makes what I think is a good point, Tort's failed to accommodate his hockey system to the type of players that are on the Canuck's roster, and AV did. What comes to my mind is when the Nonis tenure came to an end, we had only achieved success up to that point in time by being superly defensively responsible, and Luongo was in a position to back us up. As soon as Gillis came in, the word was ownership wanted a more offensive - upbeat game. Could AV deliver this? He did.

Unfortunately for AV, and the Canucks in general, it was obvious that we no longer really had the horses to provide the scoring we needed, and Gillis really didn't deliver in the off-season (didn't bring in any real goal scoreres). But truthfully, with Tort's in the drivers seat I don't know if it would have made any difference anyways.

So what do i really want - a new coach, a new GM, and some trades involving our core - an that's the order of my preferences.


I agree with Doc... again... listening to guys with journalism degrees as if they know what they talk about is a mug's game. So is blaming Torts, I don't believe the best coach on the planet is going to turn a pig's ear into a silk purse.

This team has needed an upgrade since 2011 and a change in approach since the league decided to allow the clutch and grab to seep back into game. The last three teams that won the stanley cup make the best Canuck team we've ever had wilt under the pressure of a physical game that would once have been called to death by the officiating.

We are in the middle of that change now and only a fool was going to think is was going to be seamless.
Changing coaches, GM and trading away the core for unknowns is so retarded I'm struggling to stay politically correct.

The style of play Torts favours and has tried to implement is the same one that LA, San Jose Anaheim and to a lesser extent the Hawks play. Its true we don't have the horses yet, but if your going remake yourself from a fast freewheeling, pretty play team to a high percentage possession game that owns the corners, slots and creases at both ends of the ice. You start with the system.

You plug the existing players in and get rid of the players that don't fit, then you try to bring in the best players you can to replace the missing pieces and upgrade each position as you go.

Watching from afar, this seems exactly what is happening and Gillis (and Torts) deserve the chance to utilize the cap space he has cleared for himself to replace dead weight from the roster and bring in more big bodies with skill and bring the Utica kids along as they mature.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:20 am

ukcanuck wrote:This team has needed an upgrade since 2011 and a change in approach since the league decided to allow the clutch and grab to seep back into game. The last three teams that won the stanley cup make the best Canuck team we've ever had wilt under the pressure of a physical game that would once have been called to death by the officiating.

We are in the middle of that change now and only a fool was going to think is was going to be seamless.
Changing coaches, GM and trading away the core for unknowns is so retarded I'm struggling to stay politically correct.

The style of play Torts favours and has tried to implement is the same one that LA, San Jose Anaheim and to a lesser extent the Hawks play. Its true we don't have the horses yet, but if your going remake yourself from a fast freewheeling, pretty play team to a high percentage possession game that owns the corners, slots and creases at both ends of the ice. You start with the system.

You plug the existing players in and get rid of the players that don't fit, then you try to bring in the best players you can to replace the missing pieces and upgrade each position as you go.

Watching from afar, this seems exactly what is happening and Gillis (and Torts) deserve the chance to utilize the cap space he has cleared for himself to replace dead weight from the roster and bring in more big bodies with skill and bring the Utica kids along as they mature.



I disagree. Do you think the Sedins will EVER be able to play that style of game? I don't. They are cerebral players, not bulls. They cycle the puck well, but theirs isn't a dump/chase/muck/grind game. As long as we have the Sedins as 2/3 of our top line we won't be able to fully implement such a system. Ditto for guys like Burrows, he's not big enough. We committed to a core that was designed to play a skill game... why not let them play their skill game?

IMO, the drive for size and toughness was overblown when we lost to Boston. It was perfectly highlighted when Hamhuis blew his everything trying to hip check the freight train known as Lucic. Everyone (ownership most likely) decided we needed to get bigger and meaner immediately. To a certain extent we did, but that doesn't mean a complete overhaul in the style we played. Kassian is still a skilled player, but he's mean as fuck. You can get bigger players without forcing a dump/chase offense on the team.

I do think that Gillis is moving the team in the St Louis/LA direction with his drafting and acquisitions, big forwards that own the corners and the walls. It's just too bad that we'll probably have to sacrifice the next couple years before we're capable of playing that style.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:06 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:

I disagree. Do you think the Sedins will EVER be able to play that style of game? I don't. They are cerebral players, not bulls. They cycle the puck well, but theirs isn't a dump/chase/muck/grind game.


More media bullshit, the Sedins have never been speedy skaters they rely on passing and working along the boards and in the corners there is no reason why their natural game cannot complement three other lines that are continually running over and through people. Imagine other teams sighing with relief to get the Sedin line only to have twist their tired body in knots trying to get the puck back...

Island Nucklehead wrote:IMO, the drive for size and toughness was overblown when we lost to Boston.


I dont think losing the stanley cup to a physically and mentally tougher team was overblown at all... That Canuck team had all kinds of trouble with physical play, it was plain to see.




Island Nucklehead wrote:I do think that Gillis is moving the team in the St Louis/LA direction with his drafting and acquisitions, big forwards that own the corners and the walls. It's just too bad that we'll probably have to sacrifice the next couple years before we're capable of playing that style.


why do you think that? before the injuries mounted up we played that game quite well, the teams weakness right now is depth. add a few pieces here and there and we are well on our way.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby RoyalDude » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:33 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:This team has needed an upgrade since 2011 and a change in approach since the league decided to allow the clutch and grab to seep back into game. The last three teams that won the stanley cup make the best Canuck team we've ever had wilt under the pressure of a physical game that would once have been called to death by the officiating.

We are in the middle of that change now and only a fool was going to think is was going to be seamless.
Changing coaches, GM and trading away the core for unknowns is so retarded I'm struggling to stay politically correct.

The style of play Torts favours and has tried to implement is the same one that LA, San Jose Anaheim and to a lesser extent the Hawks play. Its true we don't have the horses yet, but if your going remake yourself from a fast freewheeling, pretty play team to a high percentage possession game that owns the corners, slots and creases at both ends of the ice. You start with the system.

You plug the existing players in and get rid of the players that don't fit, then you try to bring in the best players you can to replace the missing pieces and upgrade each position as you go.

Watching from afar, this seems exactly what is happening and Gillis (and Torts) deserve the chance to utilize the cap space he has cleared for himself to replace dead weight from the roster and bring in more big bodies with skill and bring the Utica kids along as they mature.



I disagree. Do you think the Sedins will EVER be able to play that style of game? I don't. They are cerebral players, not bulls. They cycle the puck well, but theirs isn't a dump/chase/muck/grind game. As long as we have the Sedins as 2/3 of our top line we won't be able to fully implement such a system. Ditto for guys like Burrows, he's not big enough. We committed to a core that was designed to play a skill game... why not let them play their skill game?

IMO, the drive for size and toughness was overblown when we lost to Boston. It was perfectly highlighted when Hamhuis blew his everything trying to hip check the freight train known as Lucic. Everyone (ownership most likely) decided we needed to get bigger and meaner immediately. To a certain extent we did, but that doesn't mean a complete overhaul in the style we played. Kassian is still a skilled player, but he's mean as fuck. You can get bigger players without forcing a dump/chase offense on the team.

I do think that Gillis is moving the team in the St Louis/LA direction with his drafting and acquisitions, big forwards that own the corners and the walls. It's just too bad that we'll probably have to sacrifice the next couple years before we're capable of playing that style.


Brilliant post IN, completely agree with you
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:26 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:I disagree. Do you think the Sedins will EVER be able to play that style of game? I don't. They are cerebral players, not bulls. They cycle the puck well, but theirs isn't a dump/chase/muck/grind game. As long as we have the Sedins as 2/3 of our top line we won't be able to fully implement such a system. Ditto for guys like Burrows, he's not big enough. We committed to a core that was designed to play a skill game... why not let them play their skill game?

IMO, the drive for size and toughness was overblown when we lost to Boston. It was perfectly highlighted when Hamhuis blew his everything trying to hip check the freight train known as Lucic. Everyone (ownership most likely) decided we needed to get bigger and meaner immediately. To a certain extent we did, but that doesn't mean a complete overhaul in the style we played. Kassian is still a skilled player, but he's mean as fuck. You can get bigger players without forcing a dump/chase offense on the team.

I do think that Gillis is moving the team in the St Louis/LA direction with his drafting and acquisitions, big forwards that own the corners and the walls. It's just too bad that we'll probably have to sacrifice the next couple years before we're capable of playing that style.


Excellent post.

+1.

I couldn't agree anymore with this post.

Completely agree that we didn't need a complete overhaul after the 2011 loss. What a lot of people seem to forget (or conveniently neglect to mention), is that Nashville and San Jose were also extremely physical teams that year. A lot of our 'banged up-ness' from the finals was a direct result of having gone through the Preds and the Sharks.

Given that we lost in 7 games to a relatively healthy Boston team while we were signficantly banged (playing 3 of the top 4 physical teams that year........Philly being the only exception), a complete overhaul certainly was NOT needed.

Even in 2012 - we ran into a sizzling Kings team. If the Canucks got by that Kings team, there's a good chance that we would have made another Cup appearance that year.

2013 was the year where we made a huge regression.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:00 pm

RD and brown stuff disagree as well, lol now I know I'm right.

... But wait....wtf sounds like they agree with me?

RoyalDude wrote:I just don't see Kes signing

If Gillis is smart he trades at the draft. This team needs a change and that's a fine place to start. Just seeing the enthusiasm of Jensen in the lineup and that enthusiasm rubbing off on the team and fans tells me that change is a must


Brown Knight wrote:Agreed. The team just smacks of denial. Refusal to accept their current place in the pecking order, no real desire to change or re-set. While injuries undoubtedly have lowered our output this season, the trend has been curing downward for well over a year. All the interviews have the same responses "embarassing, rock bottom, need to be better", but no change is happening.

I also don't see Kesler re-upping here, especially if we're not a competitive second-round team.

End the drama. Move Kesler and/or Edler at the draft, start next season fresh with new faces in core places on the roster. Moving those two guys could easily net us 4-5 quality pieces



Hmmm second round team... getting past tough hard nosed teams like LA and San Jose and Anaheim?

Wonder what the strategy for that would be??
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