Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Strangelove » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:41 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:Yeah... great comparables.


The point was about longevity.

I picked the 4 oldest players still playing.

Burrows is ~10 years younger than those guys.

We were talking about one of the best defensive players in the league

(who just so happens to score a ton of HUGE goals).

Now crawl back under your rock you nucklehead. :mrgreen:

Jeesh, is it just me or are folks picking fights lately....
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:16 pm

Oh it looks like he's found his game?

Quick! While you can still get something for him!!!!!

Sorry doc....don't get yer tentacles in a twist...

Shirley you can see the benefit of moving along players right before their game starts to go south...Shirley....
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Strangelove » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:15 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:Shirley you can see the benefit of moving along players right before their game starts to go south...Shirley....


Well everyone is available if the price is right.

Did you read the fine print in my opening post...

Strangelove wrote:But IMESHO whether one is a rebuilder, retooler, or re-upper...

YOU DON'T DITCH ALEXANDRE BURROWS Image

(well not unless you get a HUGE return for him)


:mex:

And don't call me Shirley...
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby dbr » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:27 pm

Doc I think you misinterpreted my post.

What I was saying was, we 'could' do this but it would be pretty pointless (ie buying Burrows out and trying to replace him for the same money). In other words let's not focus on it because it's a dumb idea.

What I could see actually making sense would be is if the team changed the way cap dollars are distributed. As for having space for Burrows AND a top liner acquired in free agency that sounds really nice but I have my doubts; put it this way, I don't see anyone in the free agent pool likely to give the Canucks a discount right now.

As for mentioning Burrows and Booth in the same sentence, you will notice I was comparing their contracts.

Anyway if there's room for everyone great but my hope for this team next year is that they're both better on the ice and further into their rebuild/retool/whatever and some people are going to have to move for that to happen in all likelihood.

If Burrows is here and bounces back I'll be happy - but I still don't see much reason to believe he'll be like the exceptional players you listed earlier moreso than the vast majority of NHLers who see their effectiveness dwindle through their 30s to the point where they can no longer get a contract and retire.
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Strangelove » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:23 pm

dbr wrote:Doc I think you misinterpreted my post.

What I was saying was, we 'could' do this but it would be pretty pointless (ie buying Burrows out and trying to replace him for the same money). In other words let's not focus on it because it's a dumb idea.


Let's see...

Dave brings up an idea, spells it out, and eventually concludes it's a "dumb idea...

unless someone has decided there absolutely must be a 'culture change' and Burrows is at the center of that."


At which point I retorted "No, it's a dumb idea period".

Yeah no, I've been following this pretty good for an old guy thanks Dave. :D

dbr wrote:As for mentioning Burrows and Booth in the same sentence, you will notice I was comparing their contracts.


Well you were saying they're both bad contracts Dave.

My "same sentence" quip was meant to differentiate between those two contracts.

Burrows' contract could be up to 30% high if he ends up dropping to the 3rd line (not likely).

Booth's contract is just outright horrible no matter how you slice it.

dbr wrote:Anyway if there's room for everyone great


If there isn't room (and there most certainly is) you don't buy out Alexandre Burrows.

Burrows has plenty of trade value, and more importantly: Canucks need him going forward.

dbr wrote:If Burrows is here and bounces back I'll be happy - but I still don't see much reason to believe he'll be like the exceptional players you listed earlier moreso than the vast majority of NHLers who see their effectiveness dwindle through their 30s to the point where they can no longer get a contract and retire.


Burrows is 32 years old.

He's not "dwindling"... his season was derailed by 2 major injuries.

Dave, it's okay to admit you and your fellow pitchforkers were wrong in prematurely pitchforking young Burrows.

No one will think any less of you (hey, this crazy season drove alotta folk a little nutty!).

It takes a big man to admit he was wrong Dave.

Do it buddy.

Admit it was madness to suggest buying out Alexandre Burrows.

And hey, what better place than the Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread amirite? :mex:
Last edited by Strangelove on Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby SKYO » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:40 pm

As much as I'd like Burrows to be moved for youth, change the core a bit etc, I can see him rebounding back to his tenacious 20-25 goals per - 1st liner self once again.

Plus I can't really see MG moving him, he's already having a hard time getting good offers for Kesler and Edler, can't imagine GM's giving anything of value for Burrows, except maybe the Habs, with Burrows obviously accepting, they can offer Josh Georges or a 3rd liner (Prust) + Tinordi (whom MG coveted at the draft iirc).
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Strangelove » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:44 pm

SKYO wrote:As much as I'd like Burrows to be moved for youth, change the core a bit etc, I can see him rebounding back to his tenacious 20-25 goals per - 1st liner self once again.


UMMM... tenacious 29 goals per...

And no doubt Gillis could get plenty for Kesler/Edler/Burrows in the off-season.
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby SKYO » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:58 pm

Strangelove wrote:
SKYO wrote:As much as I'd like Burrows to be moved for youth, change the core a bit etc, I can see him rebounding back to his tenacious 20-25 goals per - 1st liner self once again.


UMMM... tenacious 29 goals per...

And no doubt Gillis could get plenty for Kesler/Edler/Burrows in the off-season.


not 30? :o

Draft day is the big day for MG!!...but watch it go by with nothing happening. :|
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby mathonwy » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:19 pm

SKYO wrote:
not 30? :o

Draft day is the big day for MG!!...but watch it go by with nothing happening. :|


Because Mike Gillis doesn't have what it takes to make that big deal.

You got every GM trying to low ball him at the trade deadline when he's got arguably the one of the more impactful players allegedly available at a trade deadline in Ryan Kesler.

The guy is ALL weakness and NO strength. Time to get a GM that actually can make something happen.
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Lancer » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:38 am

Figured he would turn it around at some point. You don't just fall off a cliff and stop scoring forever, unless your name is Daniel. Even after he came back from that jaw injury, you could tell that the cage was having a major impact on his ability to handle the puck.

What impresses me more is his play without the puck. He's a puck-hound who puts his heart into it on the ice on a regular basis. Add to the fact that it appears that he's a positive influence in the dressing room and he's worth keeping around unless Gillis gets an offer that knocks him off his feet and to which Burr will waive his NTC.
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby dbr » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:35 am

Strangelove wrote:Yeah no, I've been following this pretty good for an old guy thanks Dave. :D


Hey that's the same standard we'll need to use to deem Alex to be worth his cap hit soon! :sly:

In seriousness what I should have clarified with (and trust me, it seems obvious when you are the one who wrote it and already knows what you're saying) is that buying Burrows out and then trying to get a player like Burrows for the same cost makes no sense; doing so because you're trying to change the personality of the team is at least a cogent idea, even if I don't find it a particularly convincing one.

dbr wrote:As for mentioning Burrows and Booth in the same sentence, you will notice I was comparing their contracts.


Well you were saying they're both bad contracts Dave.

My "same sentence" quip was meant to differentiate between those two contracts.

Burrows' contract could be up to 30% high if he ends up dropping to the 3rd line (not likely).

Booth's contract is just outright horrible no matter how you slice it.


Honestly Doc, and I know you've thrown down the gauntlet here and are taking on any and all comers who don't agree with you about Alex Burrows place on this team, what I was saying is that they are both $4m-ish contracts for players who are outside of the three guys our forward group is built around.

In other words perhaps this team would be better off building around four forwards than it has been building kinda/sorta around five (but really only around three).. cap-wise, that is.

But I mean if you think Alex Burrows is every bit the player that Henrik Sedin and Ryan Kesler are, and Daniel is supposed to be :scowl:, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

dbr wrote:If Burrows is here and bounces back I'll be happy - but I still don't see much reason to believe he'll be like the exceptional players you listed earlier moreso than the vast majority of NHLers who see their effectiveness dwindle through their 30s to the point where they can no longer get a contract and retire.


Burrows is 32 years old.

He's not "dwindling"... his season was derailed by 2 major injuries.

Dave, it's okay to admit you and your fellow pitchforkers were wrong in prematurely pitchforking young Burrows.

No one will think any less of you (hey, this crazy season drove alotta folk a little nutty!).

It takes a big man to admit he was wrong Dave.

Do it buddy.

Admit it was madness to suggest buying out Alexandre Burrows.

And hey, what better place than the Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread amirite? :mex:


:lol:

This is the team's one chance to get out from under a bad contract, scot free, and if they are committed to spending money over and above the cap ceiling to improve the on ice product I'll be happy with that. If they want to maximize the impact they will consider using it on a contract with more remaining term than David Booth's. Burrows has had an awful year and might be a candidate to some.

Dredge up this thread in about ten months, and I might be ready to admit that buying out Burrows might have been a mistake if it doesn't happen and he is the Burr of old out there.

Of course - if his game does fall off at some point over the next three years and he does use his NTC to remain a Canuck - or is simply untradeable for some other reason :look: - over that entire stretch and if it does hurt the team I should think that would validate the concerns expressed by many of us.

Before I leave off from this subject, which is a bit disrespectful to the ostensible reason for this thread, I wanted to point out a couple of things.

You pointed out that a few guys ten years Alex's senior are doing well in the league, that is well and truly heartwarming and nice to know that a guy can still play hockey in his 40s. How does everyone at Burrows' age fare? This upcoming season Alex will be 33, this year there were 15 forwards in meaningful roles (10 minutes a game or more) who were 33 on 10/1/2013. There were 12 who were 34, and just 5 who were 35 (the age Alex will be entering his last contract year). That list of 5 players is not pretty either, with guys like Shawn Horcoff and Daniel Briere who've been disappointing to say the list compared to the contracts they've had. It's a small sample but I wouldn't guess it would be out of line with the general trend.

Another little thought experiment.. let's take a look at guys playing their 32 year old season (like Alex did this year) awhile back and find out where they were in their 35 year old season. I want to eliminate wacky shortened seasons and artificially low cap ceilings so I'm going to pick 32 year olds as of 10/1/2008 and see how they were contributing in 2011/12.

Now I swear I picked these arbitrarily, here they are (guys who played in 2011-12 in bold):

Eric Perrin, Richard Zednik, Radek Bonk, Mathieu Dandeneault, Milan Hejduk, Ryan Smyth, Chris Clark, Patrik Elias, Jeff Halpern, Steve Reinprecht, Richard Park, Wayne Primeau, Ryan Johnson, Chris Drury, Daymond Langkow

It's a hell of an attrition rate. Maybe Burrows will be an exception like Patrik Elias or Milan Hejduk or Langkow, because he sure as hell won't be dirt cheap like Halpern and Park were. Then again, perhaps he will just be our Ryan Smyth.
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby dbr » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:37 am

mathonwy wrote:
SKYO wrote:
not 30? :o

Draft day is the big day for MG!!...but watch it go by with nothing happening. :|


Because Mike Gillis doesn't have what it takes to make that big deal.

You got every GM trying to low ball him at the trade deadline when he's got arguably the one of the more impactful players allegedly available at a trade deadline in Ryan Kesler.

The guy is ALL weakness and NO strength. Time to get a GM that actually can make something happen.


Yeah, if we wanna make something happen at draft day let's fire Mike Gillis and go get the GM who was involved in the biggest trade of the last draft day!

I mean, the other GM involved in that trade.
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby mathonwy » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:10 am

dbr wrote:
Yeah, if we wanna make something happen at draft day let's fire Mike Gillis and go get the GM who was involved in the biggest trade of the last draft day!

I mean, the other GM involved in that trade.


You're defending Mike Gillis? Because.... he's proven to be such an astute trader right? ... :|
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Topper » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:47 am

mathonwy wrote:You got every GM trying to low ball him at the trade deadline

So you say it is GMMG' fault others may have been low balling him.

mathonwy wrote:when he's got arguably the one of the more impactful players allegedly available at a trade deadline in Ryan Kesler.

Butt you are not certain Kesler was available.

Oh Mathowny, you better talk to the Mods again about deleting for you.
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:16 am

Strangelove,

What do you think about the idea of moving Burrows in the off-season?

While I agree that Burrows is a lot better than what he has shown this year, would you agree that Burrows' contract is less-than-desirable?........and that with Burrows' recent strong play of late, perhaps the Canucks should be looking to move him in the off-season.

Now unfortunately, we can't simply buy him out and then re-sign him for less money as Mathonwy thinks we can..... :lol:

However - I think it might be in our best interests to let other GM's know that Burrows can be had. Even with that cap hit, he should command atleast some interest.
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