A Rudderless Ship

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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:36 pm

Vader wrote:YOU said Bernier was an example of a highly regarded player worthy of an offer sheet and now you're saying it wasn't a legitimate offer sheet, but rather a retaliatory offer sheet. You're doing the exact opposite of what RD does - You're being a cheerleader of every move the guy makes even though the trade was clearly a bust.


No. I said Bernier was thought highly enough to be offer sheeted. He was signed to an offer sheet. And it was retaliatory. Are they mutually exclusive?

To me, most of those moves are a lot of MEH. Taylor Ellington plays in Europe. Steve Bernier was regarded highly enough to be offer-sheeted by St Louis. The Ballard trade was a disaster, but the Ehrhoff deal probably got us to the finals. Higgins and Lapierre trades also had a huge impact on this team. We gave up nothing for Booth, except cap space. At the time it was low-risk, high reward. You're acting like Connauton is some kind of top prospect, he's a bottom-pairing guy on Dallas. The Kassian deal was youth-for-youth, and the jury is still out. Kassian hasn't put up points, and Hodgson still can't be responsible in his own zone.



Not really sure where you get the cheerleader bullshit from. Just because most of us around these parts don't soil ourselves with contempt and anger and overreact to every little thing that goes wrong, does not make us cheerleaders. I acknowledge the Ballard trade was a disaster and Booth hasn't performed up to expectations. Apart from that there's a whole fuckload of MEH trades that are pretty much par for the league.

Jesus. San Jose hasn't won a cup either, I wonder if people over there still tear their hair out about giving away Ehrhoff for nothing, or giving up Bernier and the pick that became Tyler Ennis for a couple months of Brian Campbell?

For all your bitching about Gillis' poor trades you'd think he'd traded away Cam Neely or something.

Christ, can you imagine if Gillis traded away the pick that became Wayne Simmonds for Brent Sopel, like the Wizard Nonis did? He'd be lynched!
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Strangelove » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:43 pm

Vader wrote:Gillis was trying to hedge his bets against potentially losing Salo and Erhoff the following summer while wanting to move Bieksa. That's why it is relevant - he stood to be down 3 defensemen.


Ridiculous, at that point he had a full year to re-sign them if that is what he wanted!

"Pending UFAs" Image

Vader wrote:And shipping out O'Brien was not going to be enough get them under the cap. They were juggling the cap all season that year (Burrows out for the first 10 games, Edler going on the LTR, waiting as long as possible to activate Salo etc)


There were plenty of ways to get under the cap.

Especially for a team that wants to "juggle".

Vader wrote:There was so much talk around Bieksa being dealt that it's generally considered true


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice logic...

Vader wrote:But, hey, you can chose to believe what you want to believe.

Even if it's completely illogical


I'm beginning to understand the way you think.

"Logical" to trade one of your only two RH-shot defensemen. :crazy:
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Vader » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:45 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:No. I said Bernier was thought highly enough to be offer sheeted. He was signed to an offer sheet. And it was retaliatory. Are they mutually exclusive?


Yes. St.Louis had no genuine interest in Steve Bernier @$2.5M for one year.

(but you think they did)
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Vader » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:53 pm

Strangelove wrote:"Logical" to trade one of your only two RH-shot defensemen. :crazy:



Maybe Gillis just doesn't concern himself with things like that?

I mean Gillis swapped out Salo (RH) for Garrison (LH) leaving himself with only Bieksa as a regular RH defenseman last year so it's hardly a stretch to think he wouldn't have considered it in 2010 :eh: .

Now I can understand moving on from a 38 year old injury prone Salo in favour of Garrison, but don'tcha think he should have addressed the lack of RH defensemen in his lineup. And no, I don't consider Yannick Weber a solution (but you probably do :sly: ).
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:53 pm

mathonwy wrote:

Mike Gillis's record when it comes to dealing with his colleagues is pretty shoddy in my opinion. He doesn't seem like a very strategic leader and based on the circumstances of how two recent major Canucks assets left the organization, he's not very good at keeping his own house in order.



Yawn ....Gillis is probably .500 in his " major " trades. What's with the pissfest Mathonwy ? As for the " two major assets" , he received value in both deals considering the goalie market .

Maybe you haven't followed said market recently. Golaies don't fetch much amigo. Roberto Luongo was no major asset the last two seasons . NOBODY wanted the fucking guy. His stats and play are very fucking average. I'm shocked Vancouver got 2 pieces for him as there are 30 goalies in hockey who are as good as him at this point.

One more time, for anyone I could give a fuck if Eye Bags is retained but he may be the man to do the job for the time being. You don't guillotine a guy with a 83 % playoff record.
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Strangelove » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:55 pm

Vader wrote:
Strangelove wrote:Not sure why you are reaching so much to make your case against Gillis.


Because the vast majority of the posters here jump and down with glee over every move Gillis makes (Tantalum, IN) no matter how bad the move winds up being - at the time or in retrospect.


Yes but in this case it ... winds up being... he kept Bieksa.

You're criticizing him because you think he was thinking about moving him. Image
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Vader » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Strangelove wrote:There were plenty of ways to get under the cap.

Especially for a team that wants to "juggle".


You know what - Gillis DID do a good job juggling the cap that year. See, I don't piss on everything Gills does. It's called being objective.

But don't kid yourself, the biggest help Gillis got was Salo going on LTR, which was the ONLY reason he was able to retain Bieksa
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Vader » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:02 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Yes but in this case it ... winds up being... he kept Bieksa.

You're criticizing him because you think he was thinking about moving him. Image


yes, he kept Bieksa...cause Salo got hurt playing floor fucking hockey! You know, plastic sticks, orange pucks!

Good thing he didn't pull the tigger on a deal for Bieksa before July 22, 2010 (though the city of Vancouver would've been spared a riot) :drink:
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Strangelove » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:06 pm

Vader wrote:
Strangelove wrote:"Logical" to trade one of your only two RH-shot defensemen. :crazy:



Maybe Gillis just doesn't concern himself with things like that?

I mean Gillis swapped out Salo (RH) for Garrison (LH) leaving himself with only Bieksa as a regular RH defenseman last year so it's hardly a stretch to think he wouldn't have considered it in 2010 :eh: .

Now I can understand moving on from a 38 year old injury prone Salo in favour of Garrison, but don'tcha think he should have addressed the lack of RH defensemen in his lineup. And no, I don't consider Yannick Weber a solution (but you probably do :sly: ).


Tanev? :hmmm:

Weber and Corrado in reserve.

You do realize that most teams have to make do with an excess of LH-shot to RH-shot dee right? :look:

Using you kind of "I think he thinks" logic

... why not "think" he had trades in place all to add a RH-shot dee at any and every point?

weeeeee what fun!!
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby mathonwy » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:07 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Not really sure where you get the cheerleader bullshit from. Just because most of us around these parts don't soil ourselves with contempt and anger and overreact to every little thing that goes wrong, does not make us cheerleaders.


And just because some of us don't subscribe to your view of GIllis doesn't mean anyone is "soiling themselves with contempt and anger and overreact to every little thing that goes wrong."

Read your own words objectively and you'll see why you're portraying yourself as a cheerleader.


Island Nucklehead wrote: I acknowledge the Ballard trade was a disaster and Booth hasn't performed up to expectations. Apart from that there's a whole fuckload of MEH trades that are pretty much par for the league.

Jesus. San Jose hasn't won a cup either, I wonder if people over there still tear their hair out about giving away Ehrhoff for nothing, or giving up Bernier and the pick that became Tyler Ennis for a couple months of Brian Campbell?


If San Jose didn't make the playoffs this year and suffered the same type of catastrophic season that we did, the Shark boards would be absolutely filled with vitriol postings calling for Doug Wilson's head. Thats a fact!


Island Nucklehead wrote:For all your bitching about Gillis' poor trades you'd think he'd traded away Cam Neely or something.

Christ, can you imagine if Gillis traded away the pick that became Wayne Simmonds for Brent Sopel, like the Wizard Nonis did? He'd be lynched!


Now this type of reasoning is bullshit as it's a derivative of Godwin's law. You're comparing our current criticism of Mike GIllis to the Vancouver Canuck's worst trade in team history. You fail IN.
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Strangelove » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:11 pm

Vader wrote:don't kid yourself, the biggest help Gillis got was Salo going on LTR


So he was lucky to be able to start the season with only one RH-shot dee?

But I thought you said that was a BAD thing. :)

Vader wrote:which was the ONLY reason he was able to retain Bieksa


In your mind I'm sure it is.
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:13 pm

Vader wrote:

:bang:

YOU said Bernier was an example of a highly regarded player worthy of an offer sheet and now you're saying it wasn't a legitimate offer sheet, but rather a retaliatory offer sheet. You're doing the exact opposite of what RD does - You're being a cheerleader of every move the guy makes even though the trade was clearly a bust.

I, on the other hand, saw a trade that had some potential to be a win, only to see the GM completely mismanage getting the player under contract and then badly overpay the guy to the point they had to throw him away in a deal. The point of the deal was to get a young player, with potential, under contract for a number of years at a good cap hit before he brokeout. Instead Gillis wound up paying him like an established top six winger only to see him be a bust, while throwing away some high picks after 1 month earlier saying he wasn't going to toss around picks like the last GM. FAIL

AND, the ONLY reason they had cap space to throw $10M at Sundin, and overpay Bernier is that the previous GM set him up nicely with so many top young players under good contracts ready to breakout. But to you it's justification for Gillis to be a moron and not figure out how to get an RFA under contract before trading for him knowing a retaliatory offer sheet had to be coming.

Geez, I swear to God Gillis could deal Horvat tomorrow for a 3rd rounder you guys would be raving about how Gillis raped the other GM in that deal


How bad was the Bernier trade ? How many 2nd and 3rd round picks actually make the NHL let alone play 500 games nad play in the top nine for contending teams and fucking contribute in the playoffs ? You act like Bernier was paid 4 million a season and counted on to be a huge part of the team. He provided good depth for two seasons in the top nine for tow pics who may or may not make it . You act as though heaven and earht were moved to acquire Steve Bernier.

As I have said before Gillis is a fucking average GM and I could give a fuck if he is retained. I agree the whole offer sheet thing was a clusterfuck and the fact he didn't sign the guy BEFORE offersheeting Backes wwas stupid. The trade ( and the gamble of it) was not. Do you expect the GM of a team to sit on his fingers and not do a fucking thing about his new team when he is left with shit for a forward group ?

Sedin Sedin Pyatt

Burrows Kesler Raymond

Cowan

Sure there was cap space. I guess Nonis was a fuicking cap genius. :lol: :lol:
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:16 pm

f
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Strangelove » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:41 pm

Vader wrote:St.Louis had no genuine interest in Steve Bernier @$2.5M for one year.


Mind-reading again Vader? :wink:
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby The Brown Knight » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:13 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:No. I said Bernier was thought highly enough to be offer sheeted. He was signed to an offer sheet. And it was retaliatory. Are they mutually exclusive?


THIS is the correct answer, and this IS infact, what happened.

Vader - let it go dude.

You are embarrassing yourself in this thread.
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