A Rudderless Ship

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

dbr
CC Legend
Posts: 3093
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by dbr »

mathonwy wrote:And you say "I'm" the one that is trying to make the situation black and white.
No I said you're projecting, for example "holy fuck man, learn some soft skills" when it is pretty clear that the catalyst was Luongo's role going forward with the team (one consistent with the inevitable trade) and not with some kind of interpersonal issue.
You make it sound like the Heritage Classic game was a crazy ass must win ultra important game (it wasn't btw). Coaching is more than just about wins and losses. It's about managing the players, understanding the local dynamics and setting the locker room tone. Giving Luo the FU like Torts did in a meaningless side show game was the worst possible decision. You can bet it pissed off the NHL who had probably invested a tonne into promoting this event. You can also be sure that the other vets weren't too happy about it. Seeing a guy that you had gone to game 7 with treated like garbage. Lack got booed.. wtf. That's just being clueless about what's important to the local fanbase. Torts made the Heritage Classic game about Torts and that's just fucked up.

We lost the game. We lost Luo. And everyone is unhappy.

Yay Torts!

:drink:
Again Luongo wanting a trade before the deadline was apparently a result of the Heritage Classic non-start. "We lost Luo" was going to happen one way or the other. I don't think this was a "go for it" year for this franchise and so I'm not worried about losing 20 games of Luongo - just like I'll take a 5th over Rafael Diaz.

I don't think the Heritage Classic was any more important than any other game which is why I have no issue with Tortorella treating it like any other game rather than some prestige event that should be bestowed on Lou as some kind of honour.

(Although if you want to look at it that way perhaps it still should have gone to Lack as a symbol of where this franchise is headed - which for better or worse, is not towards the 30-something goaltender with declining stats and a two year old trade request.)
User avatar
Arachnid
CC Legend
Posts: 6249
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by Arachnid »

mathonwy wrote:
dbr wrote:
Well the "pretty boy" stuff is something you're pulling from your ass, I don't recall anything nearly as hostile so unless I'm mistaken we're left with the actual decisions as to who started those games (which is what I was saying in the first place).

So does the coach get to pick his players based on who he thinks gives him the best shot to win on a given night or does he have to put his players egos first?
And you say "I'm" the one that is trying to make the situation black and white.

Only an idiot coach would create a goaltending controversy when there was none. Only an idiot coach would add fuel to the already spectacular bonfire that is the Canucks season.

You make it sound like the Heritage Classic game was a crazy ass must win ultra important game (it wasn't btw). Coaching is more than just about wins and losses. It's about managing the players, understanding the local dynamics and setting the locker room tone. Giving Luo the FU like Torts did in a meaningless side show game was the worst possible decision. You can bet it pissed off the NHL who had probably invested a tonne into promoting this event. You can also be sure that the other vets weren't too happy about it. Seeing a guy that you had gone to game 7 with treated like garbage. Lack got booed.. wtf. That's just being clueless about what's important to the local fanbase. Torts made the Heritage Classic game about Torts and that's just fucked up.

We lost the game. We lost Luo. And everyone is unhappy.

Yay Torts!

:drink:

edit.

Rhetorical question. Why do the Canucks exist?

For entertainment.

Entertaining who? You and I.

You may still be entertained but I (and 90% of the fanbase) sure as hell am not.
Jesus, are you really that thick?

It's business.

That is all.

If it is entertainment then change the channel, watch something else. Pick another movie if that one sucks.

Pick another team, be a bandwagoneer for all we care.

If you are a true loyal fan you abide by your team through the shyte times and the great times.

If you have ever played any organized sports (and I highly doubt it at this point), you would know that it's cyclical. Boom & bust. Boom & bust.
Welcome to the bust.

Cheer it, revel in it, look forward to the next cycle of the boom. But first comes the explosion.

Widow gets it, most get it.

Hell even Team Canada went through it (neither business or entertainment but national pride) from the disaster in Calgary, Nagano to the triumph in Vancouver (and Salt Lake, Sochi).

You MUST be a Leaf fan, there is no doubt in my mind.
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)
User avatar
mathonwy
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:53 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by mathonwy »

You say a lot things were clear when it was actually quite the opposite.

It was NOT clear the Winter Heritage classic starting job was a result of Luo's role going forward with the team.

How you can even say this is clear is beyond me.

And you're muddying the waters as you also said that "So does the coach get to pick his players based on who he thinks gives him the best shot to win on a given night."

So what is it? Was Lack picked because Luo was already on his way out? Or was Lack picked because Lack was the Canuck's best chance at winning?

And that begs the question who exactly was the Canucks starter this season? It was Luo. So what happened after the Olympic break that caused Torts to start Lack in 3 consecutive games?

No dbr. None of this was "clear". It was muddy as shit.
I don't think the Heritage Classic was any more important than any other game
Now YOU are the one that is projecting. Your interpretation of the Winter Classic is irrelevant. What's important are the players and the paying fans. If you can empathize with that, then you might be able to see my point.
(Although if you want to look at it that way perhaps it still should have gone to Lack as a symbol of where this franchise is headed - which for better or worse, is not towards the 30-something goaltender with declining stats and a two year old trade request.)
That's you projecting again. At that point of time, Lack was a symbol of nothing except for a stable goaltending tandem for the Vancouver Canucks. Now, Lack is a symbol of the Mike Gillis's incompetence. No ginger, no luo, no problem!
User avatar
mathonwy
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:53 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by mathonwy »

Arachnid wrote: Jesus, are you really that thick?
I kinda stopped reading after this but thanks for your input though.

:D
User avatar
Arachnid
CC Legend
Posts: 6249
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by Arachnid »

mathonwy wrote:
Arachnid wrote: Jesus, are you really that thick?
I kinda stopped reading after this but thanks for your input though.

:?
Heh, how would you know to stop reading if you didn't read it?

Gotcha! my Leaf-friend

8-)
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)
User avatar
mathonwy
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:53 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by mathonwy »

Arachnid wrote:
mathonwy wrote:
Arachnid wrote: Jesus, are you really that thick?
I kinda stopped reading after this but thanks for your input though.

:?
Heh, how would you know to stop reading if you didn't read it?

Gotcha! my Leaf-friend

8-)
I'm your friend?

:oops:

You're my friend too.

:D
User avatar
Arachnid
CC Legend
Posts: 6249
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by Arachnid »

mathonwy wrote:
Arachnid wrote:
mathonwy wrote: I kinda stopped reading after this but thanks for your input though.

:?
Heh, how would you know to stop reading if you didn't read it?

Gotcha! my Leaf-friend

8-)
I'm your friend?

:oops:

You're my friend too.

:D
Oh absolutely!

I feel we are like kindred spirits :mrgreen:

You are a breath of fresh air on here...unlike the usual bile that comes out of Topper, Strangelove, Clam, DBR or Corn & Rats.

You my LeafFriend™ are awesome!

Everything is awesome about you!

Don't ever change! I really mean that! :thumbs:

Go Canucks! To the bottom!
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)
dbr
CC Legend
Posts: 3093
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by dbr »

mathonwy wrote:You say a lot things were clear when it was actually quite the opposite.

It was NOT clear the Winter Heritage classic starting job was a result of Luo's role going forward with the team.

How you can even say this is clear is beyond me.
I didn't. I said if you wanted to look at the Heritage Classic start as something to be awarded on a player based on ceremonial importance (rather than on who was likelier to give the team a chance to win), then perhaps it should have gone to the goalie of the future rather than the goalie of the past.

A lot of the rest of your response seems to be a product of this misunderstanding and attempts to tell me I am "projecting" which aren't really accurate either so I'll just leave off here:

You expressed that Tortorella started Lack in the Heritage Classic because of his ego; I disagree and believe it's fairly easy to make a case that Lack was the better choice to give the team a chance to win, and a much simpler explanation to boot.

(And again if Luongo was going to ask out because he'd failed to outplay his backup I have a hard time blaming the coach for that.)

I'm comfortable leaving it there.
User avatar
The Brown Knight
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1033
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:42 am

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by The Brown Knight »

Arachnid wrote:If you have ever played any organized sports (and I highly doubt it at this point), you would know that it's cyclical. Boom & bust. Boom & bust.
LOL.

Sorry, I can't resist.

I was going to try my hardest to not try and act confrontational towards you any longer, but I've got to say something here.

Dude............you were a MALE cheerleader in highschool. :rofl:

Unless your interpretation of organized sports involves waiving pompoms, or creating devious strategies with fellow cheerleaders to get into the trousers of the high school quarterback, I'm not really sure if you're in a position to be commenting on others playing or not playing organized sports, lol.

Back to hockey talk for me. Sorry mods - couldn't resist here.
"I post the Brown Way" ~ Connor McHindu"

The Dark Indian Rises
User avatar
JonT21
CC Veteran
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:24 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by JonT21 »

If Lou not playing the "outdoor" game was the last straw then I am happy he left, I just wish we got bjustad or something. I mean you make millions and live the dream and then not playing in a "special" game is such a big deal to you? I mean they celebrated a team who didn't win anything and did the roof even open at all?? I have to admit though I got pretty excited to see the sens and the canucks play each other yknow with the rivalry an all.

I sound like RD a bit but It's not like I repeat the same thing over and over again.....
User avatar
mathonwy
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:53 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by mathonwy »

JonT21 wrote:If Lou not playing the "outdoor" game was the last straw then I am happy he left, I just wish we got bjustad or something. I mean you make millions and live the dream and then not playing in a "special" game is such a big deal to you? I mean they celebrated a team who didn't win anything and did the roof even open at all?? I have to admit though I got pretty excited to see the sens and the canucks play each other yknow with the rivalry an all.

I sound like RD a bit but It's not like I repeat the same thing over and over again.....
I hate this argument.

It doesn't matter how much or how little you get paid. Everyone wants to feel appreciated at their workplace. That's an undeniable fact.

I don't think its too farfetched to believe that after he got news Lack was the starter for the Winter Classic, Luo was thinking there's no effing way I'm going to be relegated to being a backup again TO A ROOKIE after, a) making Team Canada AGAIN and B) living through the cluster that happened last season. So he got his agent to make a trade happen.

Whether you got 5 bucks in your pocket or 500 million dollars in your pocket, you can only be mistreated (or feel like you're mistreated) for so long until you take the situation into your own hands.
User avatar
herb
CC Legend
Posts: 3020
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by herb »

Does the exact scenario really matter?

Roberto Luongo wanted out of town and management made it happen once it became pretty clear that this team has zero chance of winning the win the cup this year.

These little Vancouver Weekly tabloid side stories and conspiracy theories (Tortorella was the second shooter on the grassy knoll and orchestrated the controlled demolition of tower #1) are getting tiresome.
User avatar
Arachnid
CC Legend
Posts: 6249
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by Arachnid »

The Brown Knight wrote:
Arachnid wrote:If you have ever played any organized sports (and I highly doubt it at this point), you would know that it's cyclical. Boom & bust. Boom & bust.
LOL.

Sorry, I can't resist.

I was going to try my hardest to not try and act confrontational towards you any longer, but I've got to say something here.

Dude............you were a MALE cheerleader in highschool. :rofl:

Unless your interpretation of organized sports involves waiving pompoms, or creating devious strategies with fellow cheerleaders to get into the trousers of the high school quarterback, I'm not really sure if you're in a position to be commenting on others playing or not playing organized sports, lol.

Back to hockey talk for me. Sorry mods - couldn't resist here.
STOP WITH THE FUCKING PERSONAL INSULTS

STICK TO HOCKEY ON THE HOCKEY BOARDS

YOU KEEP SAYING YOU HAVE CHANGED BUT YOU DON'T

ALL YOU DO IS INSULT PEOPLE AND THEN SAY SORRY TO THE MODS

ENOUGH!

STICK TO HOCKEY

YOU ARE CLOGGING UP A ONCE GREAT PLACE TO TALK HOCKEY WITH YOUR OWN PERSONAL ATTACKS

OR ARE YOU THAT FUCKING STUPID THAT YOU CAN'T LEARN NOT TO?!
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)
User avatar
mathonwy
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:53 pm

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by mathonwy »

Arachnid wrote:
OR ARE YOU THAT FUCKING STUPID THAT YOU CAN'T LEARN NOT TO?![/size]
Hey.. settle down chuckles.

There are women and children on this board.

and you're offending them with your reckless use of the size tag.
User avatar
Spock
CC Veteran
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:11 am
Location: Planet Vulcan, City: Reno

Re: A Rudderless Ship

Post by Spock »

This team showed it has no heart last night. That had to be the sorriest excuse of a third period I've witnessed of this club in the last 20 years and I've seen some doozies.

Mene mene teckel upharsin.......
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one."

Spock of Vulcan
Stardate 2476.8
Post Reply