Kesler has requested a trade

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Meds
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

Post by Meds »

The Brown Knight wrote:
BurningBeard wrote:If they move Kesler, I'm not sure what it would signify beyond a full rebuild. I guess it depends on the players coming back, but a second line center like Kelser is a player you chase, not one you trade as part of a "mini retool".
I completely agree with this.

If you're moving a guy like Kesler, it pretty much is a full on rebuild.........or an extremely signficant re-tool at minimum.

I'll also agree with Meds that there are a few questions marks if we're dealing with Chicago. Is Saad really as good as he appears to be, or are his stats/level of play a little inflated due to his talented linemates?

A first round pick from Chicago would pretty much be bordering on a 2nd round pick.

As I've said a few times today, the Flyers are probably our best bet. They have young centers, young power forwards, and good overall grit.
I'm noticing a trend with you TBK.

You post trade ideas as ludicrous as hjumaeni's once were, then someone comments on it, you retract, you get into a minor back and forth with someone, fire a few pot shots, and then after they respond, you immediately start complementing and agreeing with their posts.....I dub thee The Brown Sychophant. :P

As for the Flyers and Docs idea of Kes+Edler for Schenns and Simmonds/Voracek.....

Losing three of those guys would take a good chunk out of their amount of grit. I can't see Philly doing that.

I would be OK with that trade, if a trade does indeed happen. But at the same time it would be the 3rd team for all 3 of those guys in a relatively short span of time. Not sure I like that idea.
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

Post by Larry Goodenough »

Let's remember stuff is leaked to the media to manipulate.

It's not a coincidence Nonis' cousin and mouthpiece, Darren Dreger reported today Vancouver's asking price for Kesler is "mammoth" and within the same hour reports suddenly another top centre in Spezza might be available.
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

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I don't see Vancouver wanting deal with Chicago. Someone in the East would make much more sense.
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

Post by black ace »

If the Canucks can trade their 2nd line center for a 2nd line center, a prospect and a first rounder they would be crazy not too wouldn't they ???

I think Canuck fans would be willing to put up with a year or two of losing if we were playing young players but a year like this with really only Tanev and Kassian as "young" players is kind of a waste isint it ?
I cant see Gillis trying to sell the same thing next year.
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

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herb wrote:
Topper wrote:Grabner couldn't crack a poor Panther's lineup out of training camp, do you believe he would have earned a spot on a much stronger Vancouver team?
All I know for sure, and this is because it actually happened, is that Ballard was awful here. I would have rather we took the chance that Grabner would have earned a spot here and have that first round pick than blow it on out-of-shape-Keith.
Recall that at the time there was a logjam of "Grabners" (Grabner, Raymond, Shirokov) in the Canuck system. Rumour at the time was that Florida had there choice of "Grabners".
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

Post by herb »

Topper wrote:Recall that at the time there was a logjam of "Grabners" (Grabner, Raymond, Shirokov) in the Canuck system. Rumour at the time was that Florida had there choice of "Grabners".
We should've sent them Shirokov then!
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

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The rumour was, it was their choice.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

Post by herb »

black ace wrote:If the Canucks can trade their 2nd line center for a 2nd line center, a prospect and a first rounder they would be crazy not too wouldn't they ???
This is fine in theory, but I don't agree that Sutter is a 2nd line center. He isn't on a contending team at least.

If Gillis goes and trades a guy like Kesler he better have a plan. You can't trade a guy like Kesler and pretend everything's OK like he has all year. If you trade Kesler, you're folding the tent on this team. I would suspect a large handful of other guys would be on their way out as well to make way for the next generation.
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

Post by herb »

Topper wrote:The rumour was, it was their choice.
Ahh misread that. I wish they would have selected Shirokov then!
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

Post by Hockey Widow »

I think the issues here are varied.

First, I think MG and company are really seeing the state of the team. They have finally lost confidence that this core can get it done. I interpret that to mean that they are for the first time perhaps prepared to part with 1-2 players on the core to get an injection of youth, size and talent, along with trying to re-stock in some small way, Utica.

I also think that they know the number of injuries we have had to deal with, and now Dank out for a minimum of 3 weeks, have taken its toll. To that end I don't think they see the need nor have the desire or inclination for a major rebuild. Just that the re-tool now involves a piece or two from the core.

MG has been saying for some time, and has been trying for some time, to add to the top six. With the twins and Burrows USUALLY providing good first line production, MG has been trying to find skilled players to compliment the second line. We had it for a bit with Sammy the Swede. Raymond was given every chance to succeed and early indications looked promising. Granber had a peek a boo shot but had horrible camps every year. Booth has not worked out. Kassian was brought in to grow into that role. Higgins looked good with Kesler but they never could find a third guy to complete the line. And again recently MG said they want to go out and find players to play with Kesler and create that important second line. At one point we were interested in taking a shot at Moulson, then the wheels fell off.

MG entertained moving Edler before his NTC kicked in. Who knows what the offers were but for whatever reasons MG did not pull the trigger. A lot of people felt that was his best offseason shot at landing a legit top six. Was one offered? Who knows.

Back up a bit. After getting dump again 4 straight in the playoffs and Kesler is upset, pissed. He says he wants to win now. He sees where the team is headed, no real changes or infusion to the top six. He has general conversations about his long term future here. Then comes training camp and still no upgrades up front. Kesler loses a letter, gets put on wing and the team has a bad start. Kesler starts mumbling about his frustrations, doubt rises as to whether he will consider and extension or be more than willing to test FA when the time comes. Kesler says all the right things but the Kesler of old is gone. The one who says he wants to retire a Canuck, loves this group, believes this group has what it takes. Instead this new Kesler emerges, the one that still says all the right things but says you never know what the future brings, not thinking that far ahead, wants to win now and the future will take care of itself.

Kesler has grown up. He is no longer talking about taking hometown discounts to keep the team together. He no longer feels management us doing enough to keep the team competitive. He will play his balls off as usual but now he has one eye looking at greener pastures.

All of this adds up to it being a good time to contemplate moving him. The past two years were the years to get that top six to play with him. If MG can still do that he may salvage the situation. But it looks and feels like he won't be able to make it happen.

I also agree that it is almost impossible to predict what MG will do. He has been a master at concealing his true intentions. So do I believe Kesler is being shopped? Yes but I think it is still MG's preference to keep Kesler and add to the top six. Problem is Kesler is our best bet to get a top six, although I think Edler could do it as well. So if we could move Edler + to get a top six I!d love to see Kesler back next year and that coupled with a youngster or two and a healthy team, see what next year looks like, still looking like shit, then trade Kesler.
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

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Hockey Widow wrote:After getting dump again 4 straight in the playoffs and Kesler is upset, pissed. He says he wants to win now. He sees where the team is headed, no real changes or infusion to the top six. He has general conversations about his long term future here. Then comes training camp and still no upgrades up front. Kesler loses a letter, gets put on wing and the team has a bad start. Kesler starts mumbling about his frustrations, doubt rises as to whether he will consider and extension or be more than willing to test FA when the time comes.
Given that all has happened, and given what Mike Gillis said after the 4-0 sweep to San Jose (i.e. re-tooling), can you honestly blame Kesler for feeling the way he does? I sure as hell don't.

Why Torts stripped the 'A' from Kesler is effing ridiculous.
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

Post by Meds »

Hockey Widow wrote:I think the issues here are varied.

First, I think MG and company are really seeing the state of the team. They have finally lost confidence that this core can get it done. I interpret that to mean that they are for the first time perhaps prepared to part with 1-2 players on the core to get an injection of youth, size and talent, along with trying to re-stock in some small way, Utica.

I also think that they know the number of injuries we have had to deal with, and now Dank out for a minimum of 3 weeks, have taken its toll. To that end I don't think they see the need nor have the desire or inclination for a major rebuild. Just that the re-tool now involves a piece or two from the core.

MG has been saying for some time, and has been trying for some time, to add to the top six. With the twins and Burrows USUALLY providing good first line production, MG has been trying to find skilled players to compliment the second line. We had it for a bit with Sammy the Swede. Raymond was given every chance to succeed and early indications looked promising. Granber had a peek a boo shot but had horrible camps every year. Booth has not worked out. Kassian was brought in to grow into that role. Higgins looked good with Kesler but they never could find a third guy to complete the line. And again recently MG said they want to go out and find players to play with Kesler and create that important second line. At one point we were interested in taking a shot at Moulson, then the wheels fell off.

MG entertained moving Edler before his NTC kicked in. Who knows what the offers were but for whatever reasons MG did not pull the trigger. A lot of people felt that was his best offseason shot at landing a legit top six. Was one offered? Who knows.

Back up a bit. After getting dump again 4 straight in the playoffs and Kesler is upset, pissed. He says he wants to win now. He sees where the team is headed, no real changes or infusion to the top six. He has general conversations about his long term future here. Then comes training camp and still no upgrades up front. Kesler loses a letter, gets put on wing and the team has a bad start. Kesler starts mumbling about his frustrations, doubt rises as to whether he will consider and extension or be more than willing to test FA when the time comes. Kesler says all the right things but the Kesler of old is gone. The one who says he wants to retire a Canuck, loves this group, believes this group has what it takes. Instead this new Kesler emerges, the one that still says all the right things but says you never know what the future brings, not thinking that far ahead, wants to win now and the future will take care of itself.

Kesler has grown up. He is no longer talking about taking hometown discounts to keep the team together. He no longer feels management us doing enough to keep the team competitive. He will play his balls off as usual but now he has one eye looking at greener pastures.

All of this adds up to it being a good time to contemplate moving him. The past two years were the years to get that top six to play with him. If MG can still do that he may salvage the situation. But it looks and feels like he won't be able to make it happen.

I also agree that it is almost impossible to predict what MG will do. He has been a master at concealing his true intentions. So do I believe Kesler is being shopped? Yes but I think it is still MG's preference to keep Kesler and add to the top six. Problem is Kesler is our best bet to get a top six, although I think Edler could do it as well. So if we could move Edler + to get a top six I!d love to see Kesler back next year and that coupled with a youngster or two and a healthy team, see what next year looks like, still looking like shit, then trade Kesler.
Great post HW. Thanks. I know a lot of what you're saying there is opinion, but it's probably the most informed opinion we get. :)

Question about Moulson.....did the wheels completely fall off, or just 3 of the 4? I'm not really sure what Buffalo is looking for, or how much Moulson will want in the off-season, but is there still any chance of getting him and keeping Kesler? I mean even if it cost us Edler? At this point Moulson is a rental, but if Gillis can re-sign him, and Kesler and Moulson work out, then bingo, he salvages the situation.



Moulson-Kesler-Kassian would look pretty good IMHO.
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

Post by herb »

Hockey Widow wrote:I think the issues here are varied.

First, I think MG and company are really seeing the state of the team. They have finally lost confidence that this core can get it done. I interpret that to mean that they are for the first time perhaps prepared to part with 1-2 players on the core to get an injection of youth, size and talent, along with trying to re-stock in some small way, Utica.
At the end of the day, the team has not been able to win enough with Kesler. There have been some fantastic seasons, but ultimately we haven't won what we wanted to win.

Looking towards the future, I think it's pretty clear a rebuild, retool or whatever you want to call it would happen a lot faster if we trade a guy like Kesler for prospects and young players. Kesler is our second best forward, on a reasonable contract with term, and there are 29 other teams out there who would love to have him. His trade value would be high, which is why he is being considered as a trading piece.

With Kesler the Canucks have a chance to sell high and get some valuable assets that can help the team as early as next year. This is what they probably should have done with guys like Burrows and Edler. I think it's possible to move a couple of guys like Kesler and Edler, get some good young pieces back, and be a competitive team next year.
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

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The Brown Knight wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:After getting dump again 4 straight in the playoffs and Kesler is upset, pissed. He says he wants to win now. He sees where the team is headed, no real changes or infusion to the top six. He has general conversations about his long term future here. Then comes training camp and still no upgrades up front. Kesler loses a letter, gets put on wing and the team has a bad start. Kesler starts mumbling about his frustrations, doubt rises as to whether he will consider and extension or be more than willing to test FA when the time comes.
Given that all has happened, and given what Mike Gillis said after the 4-0 sweep to San Jose (i.e. re-tooling), can you honestly blame Kesler for feeling the way he does? I sure as hell don't.

Why Torts stripped the 'A' from Kesler is effing ridiculous.
Oh no, I don't blame Kesler at all. He is as competitive as hell. I just think his relationship with the team has changed. He is no longer seen as a Canuck for life, that commitment has wavered. Not saying he wants out or is set to leave just that he doesn't wear rose coloured glasses. If the team cannot ice a contender he wants out and since MG no longer knows if he will be able to re-sign him the unthinkable is being contemplated. I still believe that the preference for both would be for Kesler to be here but that we have the players to provide him with a top line. Just don't know if it will happen.
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Re: Kesler has requested a trade

Post by Hockey Widow »

herb wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:I think the issues here are varied.

First, I think MG and company are really seeing the state of the team. They have finally lost confidence that this core can get it done. I interpret that to mean that they are for the first time perhaps prepared to part with 1-2 players on the core to get an injection of youth, size and talent, along with trying to re-stock in some small way, Utica.
At the end of the day, the team has not been able to win enough with Kesler. There have been some fantastic seasons, but ultimately we haven't won what we wanted to win.

Looking towards the future, I think it's pretty clear a rebuild, retool or whatever you want to call it would happen a lot faster if we trade a guy like Kesler for prospects and young players. Kesler is our second best forward, on a reasonable contract with term, and there are 29 other teams out there who would love to have him. His trade value would be high, which is why he is being considered as a trading piece.

With Kesler the Canucks have a chance to sell high and get some valuable assets that can help the team as early as next year. This is what they probably should have done with guys like Burrows and Edler. I think it's possible to move a couple of guys like Kesler and Edler, get some good young pieces back, and be a competitive team next year.
I can't argue with that logic. But would you trade Edler and a pick, throw in JS if you have, for Myers and Moulson and see what that does for the team next year, with Kesler? If that deal could be done that is.
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