The Fork in the Road

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What road do you think the Canucks should, or need to, take?

Major rebuild
6
15%
Minor rebuild
5
13%
Significant retooling (5 or more roster spots)
14
36%
Minor retooling (4 or less roster spots)
10
26%
Minor tweak (this is a contender with some minor depth issues)
4
10%
 
Total votes : 39

Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:41 pm

Reefer2 wrote:And if pigs had wings they could fly.

Edler is 27, what we see is what we get.

He will never be considered a Norris candidate, nor is he a legit #1 D like other teams have. He is a good D man but that is about it.


Not that I'm saying this will happen but Lidstrom didn't win his first Norris until he was 31 I believe.

There is room for improvement without question. He is NOT going to reach Lidstrom status, that goes without saying, but he will likely get better the next few years, should he stay healthy that is.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby herb » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:13 pm

I've always thought trading Edler might be a good idea since he first developed back problems. Wonky backs don't tend to get better as one ages.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Reefer2 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:48 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:And if pigs had wings they could fly.

Edler is 27, what we see is what we get.

He will never be considered a Norris candidate, nor is he a legit #1 D like other teams have. He is a good D man but that is about it.


Not that I'm saying this will happen but Lidstrom didn't win his first Norris until he was 31 I believe.

There is room for improvement without question. He is NOT going to reach Lidstrom status, that goes without saying, but he will likely get better the next few years, should he stay healthy that is.


Good point about the age but I have not seen Edler improve over the past couple of years. I wish AV would of held him more accountable for his poor play as I think it would of helped him.

I want to see him come out game in and game out with hits and big plays.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Hockey Widow » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:39 pm

I think one of the problems we all have, well most of us anyway, is that we watch pretty well all the Canucks games. So we see the warts and all. Whereas we only see other teams a few times a year plus playoffs so we are less likely to see the warts on a consistent basis. So players like Edler we see the good and the bad regularly. I think he has high value and upside and if he is on the market there will be a demand for so player like him. He is a top four on most teams today. That makes him valuable, add to the that the cap hit of 5 million. He should most definitely land a true top six or a package that is intriguing.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby givemeda411 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:46 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I think one of the problems we all have, well most of us anyway, is that we watch pretty well all the Canucks games. So we see the warts and all. Whereas we only see other teams a few times a year plus playoffs so we are less likely to see the warts on a consistent basis. So players like Edler we see the good and the bad regularly. I think he has high value and upside and if he is on the market there will be a demand for so player like him. He is a top four on most teams today. That makes him valuable, add to the that the cap hit of 5 million. He should most definitely land a true top six or a package that is intriguing.


And as soon as we trade him, he'll become the exact player the Canucks should acquire. Can't make a canucks fan happy ;)

Seriously, Edler is neither worthless nor is he going to get us a top 6+A grade prospect+1st. Maybe something in the middle.
Honestly I hope we wait until the off season to move him, unless someone is really desperate. I would rather wait for the UFAs to find a home and then see where our roster sits. I mean IF we could sign Statsny, we could move Kesler to RW and use Edler and whatever pieces required to find a LW.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby mathonwy » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:37 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I think one of the problems we all have, well most of us anyway, is that we watch pretty well all the Canucks games. So we see the warts and all. Whereas we only see other teams a few times a year plus playoffs so we are less likely to see the warts on a consistent basis. So players like Edler we see the good and the bad regularly. I think he has high value and upside and if he is on the market there will be a demand for so player like him. He is a top four on most teams today. That makes him valuable, add to the that the cap hit of 5 million. He should most definitely land a true top six or a package that is intriguing.


This is 100% accurate.

Like how Blobby McPissPants is ready to drive Burr to the airport for a McDonalds Happy Meal or giving up Kesler for a borderline 2nd round pick and big bodied but defensively retarded Chris Stewart.

Burrows, Kesler, Edler, Luongo, Bieksa, Higgins, all have high trade value. This year notwithstanding, the Canuck organization has been good for a long time and the reason we've been good is our systems play and our commitment to defense has been tops in the league. In addition, Burr, Kes, Edler, Bieksa have been Nucks since day 1 so you know you aren't getting a mercenary.

Top 4 d-men and top 6 forwards that aren't mercenary's, are defensively responsible, have the skill talent to be able to be on both the PP and the PK and are available at trade deadlines aren't very common. This ain't a firesale. Either teams pay what the players are worth or we keep em and figure it out in the summer.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:32 am

mathonwy wrote:

Like how Blobby McPissPants is ready to drive Burr to the airport for a McDonalds Happy Meal or giving up Kesler for a borderline 2nd round pick and big bodied but defensively retarded Chris Stewart.

Burrows, Kesler, Edler, Luongo, Bieksa, Higgins, all have high trade value. This year notwithstanding, the Canuck organization has been good for a long time and the reason we've been good is our systems play and our commitment to defense has been tops in the league. In addition, Burr, Kes, Edler, Bieksa have been Nucks since day 1 so you know you aren't getting a mercenary.

Top 4 d-men and top 6 forwards that aren't mercenary's, are defensively responsible, have the skill talent to be able to be on both the PP and the PK and are available at trade deadlines aren't very common. This ain't a firesale. Either teams pay what the players are worth or we keep em and figure it out in the summer.



That rant was cute . Learn to fucking read Einstein. I never once said that I wanted to trade Kesler for Chris Stewart. As for your love affair with the hair pulling french bitch. Keep on keepin on man. The dude is 33 has been trending downward for two + seasons and was on a 40 point pace last season. In your little world Burrows has great value. In the real world the team would be lucky to divest itself of his contract for a mid round pick or a prospect.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:00 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:The dude is 33 has been trending downward for two + seasons and was on a 40 point pace last season. In your little world Burrows has great value. In the real world the team would be lucky to divest itself of his contract for a mid round pick or a prospect.


Yeah I'm somewhat curious as to what Burrows' value is to other GM's. He's put up excellent numbers with the Sedins, and can play a checking / PK role at an elite level. I don't know that he's worth $4.5M though. At least Ryan Malone could be a punishing, gritty player for that price. His injuries have crippled him (making him un-tradeable), and Burrows is nearing that same age-window and has been getting injured frequently. One thing is certain, he's not going to be getting any better.

Burrows' value to the Canucks was always his ability to play well and produce with the Sedins. If he was putting up close to 30 goals, $4.5M would still be a steal. As it is, his contract is one of the worst on the team relative to production. His lack of production, and Booth's lack of anything resembling NHL-level hockey ability, are easily one of the biggest reasons for our struggle this year.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Topper » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:08 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:In the real world the team would be lucky to divest itself of his contract for a mid round pick or a prospect.

+100
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby mathonwy » Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:38 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
That rant was cute . Learn to fucking read Einstein. I never once said that I wanted to trade Kesler for Chris Stewart. As for your love affair with the hair pulling french bitch. Keep on keepin on man. The dude is 33 has been trending downward for two + seasons and was on a 40 point pace last season. In your little world Burrows has great value. In the real world the team would be lucky to divest itself of his contract for a mid round pick or a prospect.


:lol: I was trolling you Blobby... settle down

Its hard to understand the anger you feel at Burr considering that you "are" a Canuck fan right?

Burr gives 100% every single time he's on the ice and has consistently been one of the hardest workers on this team in the last decade. I would even go so far to argue that he HAS been THE hardest working player on our team since he joined the team. I have never seen Burr take a shift off nor have I seen him bag it on a back check.

Is this an accurate assessment? You've been watching the same team that I have right?

And today, in a season where Burr is having the worst luck, you're referring to one of our cornerstone players that has played a massive role in the last 5 years in positioning our team amongst the top 5 teams in the league as a "hair pulling french bitch."

What have you done for me lately right?

Absolutely reeks of bandwagonism.

In terms of what Burr is worth, it's less about the numbers and more about the intangibles. He's proved that he can produce with real first line players, he can play on the PP, he can play on the PK, his puckhandling is that of a solid 2nd line player, he's faster than most, he's an agitating little shit, he's a hard worker, he's relentless on the forecheck and he's scored some pretty fucking clutch goals where it counts, in the post season.

He's got more value than you are giving him credit for and I think it would be a disgrace if he were discarded like trash for a 2nd round pick or a c level prospect.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby $lacker » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:51 pm

Burr is having a tough season, no doubt about it. If there is a decent deal out there for him then you have to do it, and if not you know come playoff time he will be there with bells on scoring clutch goals as always.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby mathonwy » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:26 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:Burrows' value to the Canucks was always his ability to play well and produce with the Sedins. If he was putting up close to 30 goals, $4.5M would still be a steal. As it is, his contract is one of the worst on the team relative to production. His lack of production, and Booth's lack of anything resembling NHL-level hockey ability, are easily one of the biggest reasons for our struggle this year.


Burr's 0 goals. Booth's inconsistent play and inability to stay out of the pressbox. The lack of point production from our top 4 blue liners. Our powerless play. Daniel seemingly forgetting how to play hockey. All the fucking injuries. Our lack of scoring depth from our 3rd and 4th liners.

Take your pick on which can be classified as our "biggest" reasons for our struggles this year. :(
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:02 am

mathonwy wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:Burrows' value to the Canucks was always his ability to play well and produce with the Sedins. If he was putting up close to 30 goals, $4.5M would still be a steal. As it is, his contract is one of the worst on the team relative to production. His lack of production, and Booth's lack of anything resembling NHL-level hockey ability, are easily one of the biggest reasons for our struggle this year.


Burr's 0 goals. Booth's inconsistent play and inability to stay out of the pressbox. The lack of point production from our top 4 blue liners. Our powerless play. Daniel seemingly forgetting how to play hockey. All the fucking injuries. Our lack of scoring depth from our 3rd and 4th liners.

Take your pick on which can be classified as our "biggest" reasons for our struggles this year. :(


The thing is, anything resembling production from Burrows could help our PP, and it could get Daniel out of his funk. Burrows is counted upon to be the 4th-best forward on the team. He's been a huge disappointment, to say the least.

I didn't lay all the blame for this teams' struggles at Burrows' feet. But in terms of scoring, PP etc., his lack of production is the most disturbing. We weren't a high scoring team when Burrows was producing regularly, when he's not we're easily one of the weakest teams in the league offensively.

That $8.75M Burrows and Booth are eating through this season would be far better served having Tortorella's former whipping boy Gaborik for the 1/2 season he's usually healthy. At least you'd get some goals... Dany Heatley, for all the talk of his awful season, is still producing more (for less$$) than those two.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby dbr » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:54 am

mathonwy wrote:And today, in a season where Burr is having the worst luck, you're referring to one of our cornerstone players that has played a massive role in the last 5 years in positioning our team amongst the top 5 teams in the league as a "hair pulling french bitch."

What have you done for me lately right?


I would say that in 3 of the last 5 (or 3 of the last 4.5) seasons he's been what you're describing.

We're in the second season where he is not that player.

Is it entirely due to injuries? If the team gamble that it is - AND that those injury problems will clear up (I feel like I'm talking about David Booth in early 2012 here) and they are wrong, they will wear that mistake.

Back when we all thought he was a third or fourth liner, Burrows had a season with something like 3 goals and when he came to camp next year AV told him he'd be out of the league soon if he kept it up. If he manages another 3 goal season while being paid to contribute as a top six player I can't imagine his fate with this team will be much different.. or at least, as a fan who wants management to recognize that a few major changes might be necessary, he seems like an extraordinarily easy candidate.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:46 pm

mathonwy wrote:

:lol: I was trolling you Blobby... settle down

Its hard to understand the anger you feel at Burr considering that you "are" a Canuck fan right?

Burr gives 100% every single time he's on the ice and has consistently been one of the hardest workers on this team in the last decade. I would even go so far to argue that he HAS been THE hardest working player on our team since he joined the team. I have never seen Burr take a shift off nor have I seen him bag it on a back check.

Is this an accurate assessment? You've been watching the same team that I have right?

And today, in a season where Burr is having the worst luck, you're referring to one of our cornerstone players that has played a massive role in the last 5 years in positioning our team amongst the top 5 teams in the league as a "hair pulling french bitch."

What have you done for me lately right?

Absolutely reeks of bandwagonism.

In terms of what Burr is worth, it's less about the numbers and more about the intangibles. He's proved that he can produce with real first line players, he can play on the PP, he can play on the PK, his puckhandling is that of a solid 2nd line player, he's faster than most, he's an agitating little shit, he's a hard worker, he's relentless on the forecheck and he's scored some pretty fucking clutch goals where it counts, in the post season.

He's got more value than you are giving him credit for and I think it would be a disgrace if he were discarded like trash for a 2nd round pick or a c level prospect.



Yes i need to settle down I'm turning purple with rage. :lol:
I am no bandwagoner mathony. Especially when it comes to this player. I have never been a huge fan .I think it is great how he overcame so much adversity and battled his way thought the Q undrafted, into the ECHL and the Moose and got a contract and in the process turned himself into a good hockey player.

Its all his other shit that have soured me on him. Fact is he is paid to produce and this poor play has been going on for 2 seasons now. He was on a 40 point pace last year playing with two of the best playmakers in the NHL and getting 20 minutes of icetime every night.

I would be jumping for joy if a team took his contract off the Canucks hands for a 2nd rounder as it would allow the team a lot more cap flexibility. Buyout Booth and ship Lou to Florida and they have real cap space. I guess a guy can dream.
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