The Fork in the Road

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What road do you think the Canucks should, or need to, take?

Major rebuild
6
15%
Minor rebuild
5
13%
Significant retooling (5 or more roster spots)
14
36%
Minor retooling (4 or less roster spots)
10
26%
Minor tweak (this is a contender with some minor depth issues)
4
10%
 
Total votes : 39

Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby herb » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:26 am

Kesler is the second to last "core" guy I'd like to see traded behind Henrik. He still has several years of high quality play in him, and should really be the anchor we build around going forward.

I'd like to see Higgins and Kassian stick around.

The rest of the forward group can go as far as I'm concerned.

On defence, I think two of Hamhuis/Bieksa/Edler/Garrison/Tanev should be traded for young forward help that can step in and help in the fall. The defenseman UFA crop this year is decent, and we should be able to build a decent group.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby dbr » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:43 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:Edler isn't as bad as you're making him out be at all. What's with the hate? The guy has a cannon, is by far and a way our heaviest hitter, makes exceptional tape to tape stretch passes out of his zone and if he could find his groove again could be in the running for a Norris. I don't understand the hate meds...


Not going to try to explain it, but if you can't tell from the fact that Meds is basically making a bunch of shit up (Edler hates playing under Tortorella, for example) in that post, there's no point trying to discuss this player with this poster.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Meds » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:54 pm

dbr wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:Edler isn't as bad as you're making him out be at all. What's with the hate? The guy has a cannon, is by far and a way our heaviest hitter, makes exceptional tape to tape stretch passes out of his zone and if he could find his groove again could be in the running for a Norris. I don't understand the hate meds...


Not going to try to explain it, but if you can't tell from the fact that Meds is basically making a bunch of shit up (Edler hates playing under Tortorella, for example) in that post, there's no point trying to discuss this player with this poster.


Have you even looked at Edler on the bench after screwing up? Any time Torts lets him know he can't be screwing up the guy completely sags and his game sucks for the rest of the night. He's given it to other guys on the bench too, but none have looked like a whipped dog as much as Edler has. So, not making that up.

UDL, you just described Dion Phaneuf. Except Edler is less consistent. Granted, he makes a lot less too. Edler has had 2011-12, 2013 (albeit shortened), and half of 2013-14. He hasn't found "his groove" again. I also don't deny that if he found "his groove again" that he would be a really good defenseman.....I doubt he's a Norris candidate, but he would certainly be a top 15 all-round guy in the league on the blueline. But that's just it, he hasn't found it and it's looking like he never will.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby vic » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:04 pm

herb wrote:Kesler is the second to last "core" guy I'd like to see traded behind Henrik. He still has several years of high quality play in him, and should really be the anchor we build around going forward.


Since Henrik went down, Kesler's been given the opportunity to seize that #1C spot. He's sucked ass in the process.

Yes, the whole team has been sucking ass recently, but your #1C is suppose to make others around him better - instead, the whole team has just looked lost since 33 has been out.

Everyone here knows what Henrik was able to accomplish as as a 29 year old in the league - without Daniel for almost a quarter of the season. Ryan Kesler as a 29 year old is on pace for less points that Henrik had assists at the same age.

Kesler isn't good enough to be a #1C in this league - he's proved it over the past few weeks.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:09 pm

Meds wrote:
dbr wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:Edler isn't as bad as you're making him out be at all. What's with the hate? The guy has a cannon, is by far and a way our heaviest hitter, makes exceptional tape to tape stretch passes out of his zone and if he could find his groove again could be in the running for a Norris. I don't understand the hate meds...


Not going to try to explain it, but if you can't tell from the fact that Meds is basically making a bunch of shit up (Edler hates playing under Tortorella, for example) in that post, there's no point trying to discuss this player with this poster.


Have you even looked at Edler on the bench after screwing up? Any time Torts lets him know he can't be screwing up the guy completely sags and his game sucks for the rest of the night. He's given it to other guys on the bench too, but none have looked like a whipped dog as much as Edler has. So, not making that up.

UDL, you just described Dion Phaneuf. Except Edler is less consistent. Granted, he makes a lot less too. Edler has had 2011-12, 2013 (albeit shortened), and half of 2013-14. He hasn't found "his groove" again. I also don't deny that if he found "his groove again" that he would be a really good defenseman.....I doubt he's a Norris candidate, but he would certainly be a top 15 all-round guy in the league on the blueline. But that's just it, he hasn't found it and it's looking like he never will.

Ok maybe but...if we traded him to Detroit, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that coach Babcock pushes the right buttons and has him contending for the Norris with 2 years.

Edler obviously wont respond to the Torturella bullshit. It's a good coach who recognizes when to scream and when to encourage. JT only has one tool in his box and it's chasing our #1 d-man right out the door. The sooner he hits the road the better IMESHO
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby herb » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:24 pm

vic wrote:Kesler isn't good enough to be a #1C in this league - he's proved it over the past few weeks.


Henrik is still around and Kesler has proven to be valuable and versatile as a winger as well. I'd much rather have Horvat/Gaunce/Fox develop behind Henrik and Kesler than be thrown into top six roles they are probably not ready for.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Meds » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:29 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:
Meds wrote:
Have you even looked at Edler on the bench after screwing up? Any time Torts lets him know he can't be screwing up the guy completely sags and his game sucks for the rest of the night. He's given it to other guys on the bench too, but none have looked like a whipped dog as much as Edler has. So, not making that up.

UDL, you just described Dion Phaneuf. Except Edler is less consistent. Granted, he makes a lot less too. Edler has had 2011-12, 2013 (albeit shortened), and half of 2013-14. He hasn't found "his groove" again. I also don't deny that if he found "his groove again" that he would be a really good defenseman.....I doubt he's a Norris candidate, but he would certainly be a top 15 all-round guy in the league on the blueline. But that's just it, he hasn't found it and it's looking like he never will.

Ok maybe but...if we traded him to Detroit, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that coach Babcock pushes the right buttons and has him contending for the Norris with 2 years.

Edler obviously wont respond to the Torturella bullshit. It's a good coach who recognizes when to scream and when to encourage. JT only has one tool in his box and it's chasing our #1 d-man right out the door. The sooner he hits the road the better IMESHO


I put Edler in a class with a guy like Niklas Kronwall.....Has Babcock turned Kronwall into a Norris candidate? Nope. I don't think Edler has the mental game to really take that next step. It has been my knock on him all along. He's got the physical tools and the skill, but he doesn't have the application.....especially under pressure.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:22 pm

Lol at getting Johansen for Kesler . Chris maybe but not Ryan
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:04 pm

Meds wrote:I put Edler in a class with a guy like Niklas Kronwall.....Has Babcock turned Kronwall into a Norris candidate? Nope. I don't think Edler has the mental game to really take that next step. It has been my knock on him all along. He's got the physical tools and the skill, but he doesn't have the application.....especially under pressure.

http://thehockeywriters.com/niklas-kronwall-detroits-norris-trophy-snub/
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1777007-norris-trophy-watch-preseason-ranking-of-top-candidates-for-2013-14-award
http://www.newsrt.us/news/writer-red-wings-niklas-kronwall-is-leading-candidate-for-norris-trophy-938532.html
Uhhhhhhh...wrong. He is most certainly a leading contender...
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:07 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Lol at getting Johansen for Kesler . Chris maybe but not Ryan

Before this season...I absolutely think you could've gotten him out of there for Kesler. Now....not so much

It was more of an example of the type of deal that could theoretically improve the team where we would give up Kelser. Find a different example now...say Strome maybe? Its the type of player vs that specific player
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby dbr » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:44 am

Meds wrote:
dbr wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:Edler isn't as bad as you're making him out be at all. What's with the hate? The guy has a cannon, is by far and a way our heaviest hitter, makes exceptional tape to tape stretch passes out of his zone and if he could find his groove again could be in the running for a Norris. I don't understand the hate meds...


Not going to try to explain it, but if you can't tell from the fact that Meds is basically making a bunch of shit up (Edler hates playing under Tortorella, for example) in that post, there's no point trying to discuss this player with this poster.


Have you even looked at Edler on the bench after screwing up? Any time Torts lets him know he can't be screwing up the guy completely sags and his game sucks for the rest of the night. He's given it to other guys on the bench too, but none have looked like a whipped dog as much as Edler has. So, not making that up.


So Torts yells at Edler on the bench and then for the rest of the game the jubilant, charismatic dynamo we all know Alexander Edler to be is gone - replaced by some quiet, bland giant I guess - and according to noted Edler critic Meds (who thinks he plays like shit most of the time) he plays like shit too.

Gotcha. ;)

You can take umbrage with "making shit up" but the fact is you're seeing what you want to see in Edler's response; making shit up when drawing meaning from real life events as opposed to making the events up themselves. If you want to quibble about semantics fine but here's someone else's take on Edler's response to this brutal "North American coaching," which I guess comes in stark contracts to the effete European style of coaching preferred by people like Alain Vigneault, Scott Arniel and Jeff Truitt..

Tortorella's Rant Gets Edler Going

Edler got an earful from Tortorella Saturday. The coach went into full finger-poke rage mode on the bench in Madison Square Garden.

Edler was benched and after the game had a long sit-down with assistant coach Mike Sullivan before Sunday's game in Raleigh.

If you were concerned Edler is fragile because he's soft-spoken, or meek because he's not oozing with personality and cockiness, you may have been surprised with how he responded.

[Did Botch write this for you Meds? :look: ]

The Canucks needed a good game from Edler, and they got it. He was a plus-2, had three hits and finished with the second best Corsi (the number of shots directed toward the net while the player is on the ice) on the team at 55.6 per cent overall.

"I love this guy," Tortorella said.

"That's where I get angrier with players. It's how much I know it's there. "(Losing it) is something I don't want to do. I really don't. I'm not preparing myself to do it.

"He responded the right way. He is a really good player that we need at a different level."

Edler said he took the benching, and the raging coach, in stride.

"It's not personal," Edler said. "We need everyone to play (well) to get the win.

"That's Torts' style. He's very emotional on the bench. It's to get you going to help the team."

..

"I felt better (Sunday), I tried to make some stronger, quicker plays," Edler said. "Nothing too much, just trust myself that I'm good enough to play, instead of hesitating."
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Vader » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:45 pm

When you come to a fork in the road....Take it
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby ClamRussel » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:14 pm

Edler is a pretty special Dman that doesn't come around too often. He's not perfect and screws up alot for sure...but if he ever put it together he'd easily be a Norris candidate, much like Kronwall. In fact, I agree if he was in Detroit they'd make a formidable pair. Do we trade him? Only if we're getting a race horse up front. Edler hasn't had a great year so the return might be less than it would have a couple of yrs ago....I dunno, I think it would leave a gap in our blueline. He's only 27 and has lots of miles left. I believe he can come out of this and will rebound. That said, its not that I'm opposed to trading him but it better bring something special back in return otherwise you don't do it. If he does get traded for prospects & picks you might as well blow the whole team up.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Reefer2 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:13 am

ClamRussel wrote:Edler is a pretty special Dman that doesn't come around too often. He's not perfect and screws up alot for sure...but if he ever put it together he'd easily be a Norris candidate, much like Kronwall. In fact, I agree if he was in Detroit they'd make a formidable pair. Do we trade him? Only if we're getting a race horse up front. Edler hasn't had a great year so the return might be less than it would have a couple of yrs ago....I dunno, I think it would leave a gap in our blueline. He's only 27 and has lots of miles left. I believe he can come out of this and will rebound. That said, its not that I'm opposed to trading him but it better bring something special back in return otherwise you don't do it. If he does get traded for prospects & picks you might as well blow the whole team up.


And if pigs had wings they could fly.

Edler is 27, what we see is what we get.

He will never be considered a Norris candidate, nor is he a legit #1 D like other teams have. He is a good D man but that is about it.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby ClamRussel » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:35 am

Reefer2 wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:Edler is a pretty special Dman that doesn't come around too often. He's not perfect and screws up alot for sure...but if he ever put it together he'd easily be a Norris candidate, much like Kronwall. In fact, I agree if he was in Detroit they'd make a formidable pair. Do we trade him? Only if we're getting a race horse up front. Edler hasn't had a great year so the return might be less than it would have a couple of yrs ago....I dunno, I think it would leave a gap in our blueline. He's only 27 and has lots of miles left. I believe he can come out of this and will rebound. That said, its not that I'm opposed to trading him but it better bring something special back in return otherwise you don't do it. If he does get traded for prospects & picks you might as well blow the whole team up.


And if pigs had wings they could fly.

Edler is 27, what we see is what we get.

He will never be considered a Norris candidate, nor is he a legit #1 D like other teams have. He is a good D man but that is about it.


I said "if" he put it all together. He's not an elite blueliner but he's far better than he's been the past year or so. I think he's got more to show. Lots of people said the same thing about the Sedins at 27 and they improved at 29/30.
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