The Fork in the Road

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What road do you think the Canucks should, or need to, take?

Major rebuild
6
15%
Minor rebuild
5
13%
Significant retooling (5 or more roster spots)
14
36%
Minor retooling (4 or less roster spots)
10
26%
Minor tweak (this is a contender with some minor depth issues)
4
10%
 
Total votes : 39

Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Uncle dans leg » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:07 am

The more I think about how the team had performed this season the more I think I'm watching the team tuning out the coach. Particularly Alex Edler, Hansen, Burrows, Garrison and possibly the Sedins.

What do they all have in common? Well other than Burrows, they are the quiet, reserved types who aren't yappers or assholes.

Burrows slump can easily be attributed to his injuries but the others have all taken major steps back.

Torturella...his act has already run its course....
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Arachnid » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:12 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:The more I think about how the team had performed this season the more I think I'm watching the team tuning out the coach. Particularly Alex Edler, Hansen, Burrows, Garrison and possibly the Sedins.

What do they all have in common? Well other than Burrows, they are the quiet, reserved types who aren't yappers or assholes.

Burrows slump can easily be attributed to his injuries but the others have all taken major steps back.

Torturella...his act has already run its course....


I agree

Time to purge all the pasta suckers....
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:47 am

ClamRussel wrote:To be honest I'm perplexed as to why Hansen hasn't excelled under Torts. He seems the perfect fit for the Torts game. Perhaps he's been miscast as a top 6 at times. Over the years w/ AV he was always a secret weapon on the 3rd line who would chip in w/ timely goals, provide a speedy relentless forecheck and basically do all the things you need from a smart 3rd liner. Now he just seems completely lost out there.


Agree, odd indeed. If this so-called re-tool takes place I imagine that Hansen will be one of the first Torts victims to go. Hansen seemingly is a coaches player. Also would not be surprised if Higgins was ousted as well. Strange enough, Booth seems to be playing Torts game lately, could be a glimmer of hope for Booth to hang about.

AV seems to be doing a better job with Torts is old players (the Rangers), vs Torts job with AV's old players (the nucks). Although Del Zotto didn't jive with AV and Weise didn't jive with Torts.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:57 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:Think Johansen plus a top prospect if it was Columbus for instance...



Think it might be too late to snag Johansen. Just don't see the Blue Jackets wanting to trade him with the season he is having. He seemingly has found his groove, for awhile there I thought he was gonna end up a bust.

Just don't think it would be wise to trade Kesler. As for Burrows, that's a tough one, he's had a tough year with injuries, so he gets a mulligan, not too mention everyone of our core players suck massive this year.

With what Gillis has said lately, I don't think we will be seeing any bold moves. It simply isn't in Gillis make-up, too Players Agent loyal to his players. I expect more bottom 6 useless tinkerings and bottom pairing tinkering out of Gillis this off-season and trade deadline. The Process just don't seem to get it, this group needs a major shakeup at the core level, but he's fucked himself with the NTC's. Gillis DNA just isn't suited to make a big impact hockey trade.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Lancer » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:58 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:The more I think about how the team had performed this season the more I think I'm watching the team tuning out the coach. Particularly Alex Edler, Hansen, Burrows, Garrison and possibly the Sedins.

What do they all have in common? Well other than Burrows, they are the quiet, reserved types who aren't yappers or assholes.

Burrows slump can easily be attributed to his injuries but the others have all taken major steps back.

Torturella...his act has already run its course....


Regardless of Torts' shelf-life - and no doubt he will have one here too - if some of the players have tuned him out or cannot adapt to his style of coaching then it's time for them to go. It's either Torts or those players who have to get punted, and it's clear that Gillis is behind the coach here. From their records thus far after the SCF in 2011, it's hard to argue that the team will have more success by keeping them, regardless of who coaches them.

If Gillis and Torts go, it's pretty much a signal fire that the blow-up is on. If Gillis and Torts stay, it behooves them to take out the ones who can't succeed under Torts and bring in those who can and will. I can understand them having to figure out who's who in the dressing room in that regard, but we're agreed as to who have proven themselves to not fit on this team under Torts.

Better luck elsewhere.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Boston Canucker » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:28 am

I think the toughest call is on Kesler. I'd be really reluctant to trade him because I think he still has a high level of play in him and he has the right attitude to be part of a winning team. That said, to get a big reward you need to take a big risk. If trading Kesler (along with some other parts) got you not only a really good young roster player and a #1 pick, this year or especially next, of a team that could be a bubble team, and thus potentially out of the playoffs, where you're looking at getting another ticket in the McDavid lottery, you have to think about it. I don't think any of this will happen, as I expect Kesler is one of the unmoveables, and probably rightly so, but there is no doubt, for me, while I want to see the young guys play anyway and am looking forward to Horvat, Shinkaruk etc - and have been saying so all year - I've got my eyes on how we can now get more picks.

With the way the team is playing now, the question of whether to tank or not becomes kind of irrelevant since, well, they are tanking. I'd rather see them drop to a bottom 8-10 slot (and with the new CBA every non playoff team has at least a shot, if weighted, at a top pick) than finish 7th or 8th and almost certainly get torched by Chi or Ana. We've had two season of first round wipeouts. Let's not be Calgary but also I don't think we need to be Edmonton and do nothing but tank. What we do have is 1) very good goaltending and 2) defensive depth with some solid young guys. We need forwards, forwards, and more forwards.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:28 am

Lmfao it is the coaches fault. It's the managers fault . Who is next the popcorn vendor ? But we all know one thing it sure as hell ain't the players fault . Zero goals for a 4.5 million cap hit - just go bite someone or pull his hair. - 23 for the supposed best d man has to be the coaches fault. Daniel looking like crap for the last fifteen games must also be managements fault
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby The_Pauser » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:34 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:The more I think about how the team had performed this season the more I think I'm watching the team tuning out the coach. Particularly Alex Edler, Hansen, Burrows, Garrison and possibly the Sedins.

What do they all have in common? Well other than Burrows, they are the quiet, reserved types who aren't yappers or assholes.

Burrows slump can easily be attributed to his injuries but the others have all taken major steps back.

Torturella...his act has already run its course....


Can't really blame poor leadership on the coach though. If they chose to tune out the coach then these should not be our leaders.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby SKYO » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:55 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:The more I think about how the team had performed this season the more I think I'm watching the team tuning out the coach. Particularly Alex Edler, Hansen, Burrows, Garrison and possibly the Sedins.

What do they all have in common? Well other than Burrows, they are the quiet, reserved types who aren't yappers or assholes.

Burrows slump can easily be attributed to his injuries but the others have all taken major steps back.

Torturella...his act has already run its course....


It's how MG master planned it so he can willingly trade those pesky NTC's. :mex:
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:16 pm

A lot of people jumping around in their urine stained clothes about Eye Bags handing out all of the NTC. As far as I know the twins and Bieksa are the only players with full NTC. Every other player can be moved to certain destinations of their choice, though admittedly I am not well versed on any player's situation- ie whether they ahve 6 teams or 10 teams they can be dealt to. Then again a lot of you guys probably listen to TEAM 1040 and take Rintoul and Price and Patterson at their word. As for Eye Bags saying he won't ask them to waive, he can ask them if they want to be part of a re-tooling process that sees the team getting a lot younger.

I wouldn't doubt if Torts was brought in to poke a few of these guys into waving their ntc should things go south. Ideally they wanted one more kick at the can with this group and that hasn't happened. The team has been derailed by injuries big time but other players needed to step up and they haven't.

It's time for a partial rebuild but not a complete teardown. There are pieces to move but I would caution against dealing Kesler, the twins, Hamhuis or Bieksa. I also wouldn't move Kassian, Horvat or Lack either. Everyone else should be in play. I love Tanev but he has real value, no clauses in his contract and is due a huge pay raise. As black ace says it doesn't work having 4.5 million dollar guys on your bottom pairing and it's one postion the team has good depth. Trading one of Tanev or Edler or both for that matter is an option Gillis needs to consider. There are far more quality d men available this summer than there are forwards. Other than Mike Santorelli I don't see many fits here via free agency. Edler and/or Tanev could return a couple nice young forwards.

I really don't care if this team makes the playoffs or not as is, because barring a hard charge in the last twenty games and some players pulling their heads out of their asses this team is done in the first round. On the other hand if they miss the playoffs and get a top 8- 10 pick they can perhaps package that pick with a d man or Hansen and get into the top 4. One of Ekblad, Bennet, Reinhart or Dal Colle would look mighty good here. Even in the 5-10 spots there are some nice players to be had like Draisaitl, Ritchie, Nylander or the Abbotsford kid playing for the Hitmen.

Lots of ways to skin the cat and free up some salary as well. Luongo has played well enough to perhaps be traded, buyout the biter and Booth and loads of money is freed up to plug some of the holes.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Uncle dans leg » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:27 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Lmfao it is the coaches fault. It's the managers fault . Who is next the popcorn vendor ? But we all know one thing it sure as hell ain't the players fault . Zero goals for a 4.5 million cap hit - just go bite someone or pull his hair. - 23 for the supposed best d man has to be the coaches fault. Daniel looking like crap for the last fifteen games must also be managements fault

Not sure how accurate a stat it was but I think I heard the CBC guys say Vancouver hasn't won since torts went full retard in Calgary. I would say that right there is a worrying fact pointing at the coach...
Add in the GIF strange-glove had of him screaming and pointing at Edler...even from the tar sands I can see the team taking issue with the guy.
It really is no excuse but could be a reason. The guy is a freak and might have lost a shitload of respect with his antics already
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Mr.Miyagi » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:45 pm

I was out of country since January and I come back to a lot of rebuild talk. I take it the Eastern road trip isn't what the doctor ordered? :p

Hopefully the Olympic break is... Torts has run this team hard and fast to what would seem like their breaking point. I haven't see personal or team stats like this in years when it comes to this team. They appear to be a broken group. When things are broken, they can be repaired. I for one am hoping that the team comes back refreshed and ready to play. If they show up with the same compete level and results as what we have seen lately, I would welcome a change or two in perssonell. Speaking of which: what are the early thoughts on Diaz? I don't know much about the guy except he was a late round fantasy stud last year.

Keep calm my fellow fans. We will get through this.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby $lacker » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:12 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:
$lacker wrote:A few posters suggesting we should trade Kesler- that's a sure fire way for a long rebuilding process, ie 5 yrs vs retooling on the fly. We don't have the center depth to trade RK and we know the Sedins aren't going anywhere. On D Gillis will build around Tanev, Hamuis and Garrison and most likely Bieksa unless there is a trade that makes a lot of sense. Burr, Hansen and Edler all need to go. Gillis will get a cpl good pieces for those three but nothing mind blowing IMO - good young solid contributors.

We actually do have a couple of young centres knocking on the door in Horvat and gaunce. Not to mention the considerable return trading Kesler would bring. Think Johansen plus a top prospect if it was Columbus for instance...

I would look for similar returns if we moved Edler despite a perplexing theme of undervaluing him...lumping him in with Hansen and Burrows when it comes to value isn't anywhere near where I see him



As I said, if we trade Kes then we have a long rebuild ahead, not a simple retool. Gaunce is projected to be a third line center, but needs another year before he'll be ready for a full time role. Horvat should pan out to be top 6 but he's way better off coming in next year in the third line center role behind Hank and Kes. If you can get a younger cheaper top 6 center for Kesler then by all means trade him, but I think anyone worth their salt as a top 6 center isn't likely to get traded.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Meds » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:23 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:The more I think about how the team had performed this season the more I think I'm watching the team tuning out the coach. Particularly Alex Edler, Hansen, Burrows, Garrison and possibly the Sedins.

What do they all have in common? Well other than Burrows, they are the quiet, reserved types who aren't yappers or assholes.

Burrows slump can easily be attributed to his injuries but the others have all taken major steps back.

Torturella...his act has already run its course....


Edler has been an inconsistent mess for all but 2 years of his tenure here in Vancouver. I'm not trying to throw Euro's under the bus here, but Swedes are hardly renowned for their grit, intensity, or heart, when it comes to the physical game. Many of them seem to wilt under the North American coaching system where coaches tear a strip off of players for screwing up. Edler has NEVER been held accountable by a coach for his mistakes since coming to the Canucks. He's been put on a pedestal and never lived up to the billing. Now there is a coach who gives the players shit on the bench for stupidity on the ice. He doesn't like it.

Garrison fits this mold as well in many respects. But he doesn't make the same mental errors, he just isn't as physical or tenacious as Torts likes.

Hansen just needs to play his third line game and he'll be fine.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:37 am

Meds wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:The more I think about how the team had performed this season the more I think I'm watching the team tuning out the coach. Particularly Alex Edler, Hansen, Burrows, Garrison and possibly the Sedins.

What do they all have in common? Well other than Burrows, they are the quiet, reserved types who aren't yappers or assholes.

Burrows slump can easily be attributed to his injuries but the others have all taken major steps back.

Torturella...his act has already run its course....


Edler has been an inconsistent mess for all but 2 years of his tenure here in Vancouver. I'm not trying to throw Euro's under the bus here, but Swedes are hardly renowned for their grit, intensity, or heart, when it comes to the physical game. Many of them seem to wilt under the North American coaching system where coaches tear a strip off of players for screwing up. Edler has NEVER been held accountable by a coach for his mistakes since coming to the Canucks. He's been put on a pedestal and never lived up to the billing. Now there is a coach who gives the players shit on the bench for stupidity on the ice. He doesn't like it.

Garrison fits this mold as well in many respects. But he doesn't make the same mental errors, he just isn't as physical or tenacious as Torts likes.

Hansen just needs to play his third line game and he'll be fine.

Edler isn't as bad as you're making him out be at all. What's with the hate? The guy has a cannon, is by far and a way our heaviest hitter, makes exceptional tape to tape stretch passes out of his zone and if he could find his groove again could be in the running for a Norris. I don't understand the hate meds...

Trading Kesler for a younger centre like johansen for example is exactly what this team needs in my opinion. No maybe he doesn't have the experience and what-not but as we sit here watching year 3 of suckiness, I honestly am starting to want to see the whole core moved along. Keslers value is likely never going to be higher and if he's so good.. Why have we sucked so damn bad?
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