Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

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Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby SKYO » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:12 pm

At this mid season mark gotta say both players have picked it up quite a bit, Kassian is really benefiting from all these injuries and some new found slack while Torts is suspended ha.

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Tanev is a continual steady force on the back end, but if last offseason is any indication he should drive a hard bargain once again as he tries to get all the money he can get for his contract.
I'd guess he'd command around $3M-$3.5M per, however MG I think has learned his lesson and he shouldn't give out a NTC anymore.

Tanev imo could be trade bait as he has no NTC and we have decent depth on defense, even though that's not a popular opinion as he's young, still improving and is on a good contract.

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Kassian I think will get a 2 year bridge contract (which I think keeps him as a RFA after that), at about $2M per, providing he doesn't go on a scoring streak before the end of the season.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby Island Nucklehead » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:46 pm

SKYO wrote:Tanev is a continual steady force on the back end, but if last offseason is any indication he should drive a hard bargain once again as he tries to get all the money he can get for his contract.
I'd guess he'd command around $3M-$3.5M per, however MG I think has learned his lesson and he shouldn't give out a NTC anymore.


Yep. Tanev is cool as a cucumber and is even putting up reasonable numbers this season (on pace for an 8G,14A season). That said, he's still 5th in TOI for d-men this year, so I'm not sure how much he thinks he can get. He'll never be a PP QB, doesn't possess a powerful shot, has no mean-streak and isn't a punishing defender, so I imagine he'll forever be stuck in that 3-5 hole. A poor man's Dan Hamhuis, he would argue. I'd give him $2-$2.5M/year, but I don't think he's a $3.5M guy. In fact, if the Canucks feel Corrado is a candidate to make the squad next year, coupled with Stanton being under contract for cheap, I'd seriously look at moving Tanev for an RFA forward (Kris Kreider, NYR??) or in a package for a top-6 forward on the good side of 30.

Kassian I think will get a 2 year bridge contract (which I think keeps him as a RFA after that), at about $2M per, providing he doesn't go on a scoring streak before the end of the season.


Kassian has no leverage. If he doubles his current salary I'd say that's plenty. 2 years $3.2M ($1.6M per). Right now, he's a depth player that's shown flashes. The next two years will decide if he's a top-6 player (deserving of a top-6 payday) or if his ceiling is as a bottom-6 guy.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby Lancer » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:28 am

Getting Tanev to a two-year deal, even if it means paying slightly higher, might be a good deal as it will coincide with Hamhuis and Bieksa's contracts expiring. If he's become the next Hamhuis in terms of what he brings the club, he can have some of Hamhuis' money and let Hamhuis walk. Definitely would not want to see him anywhere near a NTC. The only way I could see him getting longer is if management feels they need those two years to evaluate what they have in Corrado.

As for Kassian, giving him a 2-year $3 mill contract would be about right - as long as he doesn't light it up the rest of the way. At that point it could get painful, but only so much with Booth likely to be bought out.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby SKYO » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:32 am

I like your guys' numbers better Tanev - 2 yr - $2.5M per ish.

Kassian at - 2 yr - $1.5M per ish - lower considering kassian's 50/50 play, either he's awesome or makes some really dumb plays, as evidence by last night.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby Meds » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:04 pm

SKYO wrote:I like your guys' numbers better Tanev - 2 yr - $2.5M per ish.

Kassian at - 2 yr - $1.5M per ish - lower considering kassian's 50/50 play, either he's awesome or makes some really dumb plays, as evidence by last night.


Yeah, I love those numbers. Too bad they are completely out to lunch right now.

Tanev is currently logging 21 minutes per game.

He leads the blueline in shorthanded minutes.

He is tied with Garrison for the most goals from defensemen while sitting 6th in PP time.

He is behind only Hamhuis in +/-.

He has fewer giveaways than every regular other than Stanton.

He leads the defensemen in blocked shots.

Based on that body of work, Tanev is playing a more complete game than any other Vancouver blueliner. So how does anyone in their right mind think that this kid, who has steadily improved year to year, is going to sign for $2.5M per season? I'll tell you how I see this going when Tanev's agent sits down across from Gillis to hammer out a new deal.....

Ross Gurney: So Mike, we want to get a deal done here for Chris.

Gillis: Yeah, let's do that. We want to lock him up to something with some term.

RG: Excellent, that is certainly in his best interests.

MG: Agreed, and it is in the team's best interests as well. So we are thinking like 5 years and 12.5 million.

RG: BAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA!!!

MG: *poker face behind the eye bags*

RG: Wait, you're serious here Mike?

MG: Absolutely. We think this kid is important to the club but we need to have our players buy-in and take one for the team so we can build a contender.

RG: So what you are saying is that Chris can play nearly as many minutes as Hamhuis and Edler, make fewer mistakes than either of them, block more shots, score as many goals as Garrison, lead the team in SHTOI, and sit in the top 5 guys for +/-, but he's worth half of what you are paying Alex "Captain Turnover" Edler?

MG: Well, no, not exactly.

RG: Then what, "exactly"?

MG: *eye bags sag*

RG: OK, I'll tell you what, Chris is 24 years old, so we'll give you 2 years at $8 million, and when he hits 26, with another 2 seasons under his belt, we'll sit back down and talk term again? That work for ya Mikey?

MG: We aren't interested in a short term deal with Chris right now, Ross.

RG: Alright, then maybe we go back and look at how much better he was than a few of your other guys and we start from scratch? We'll sign 5 years at $22M.

MG: Well......how about 6 years at $24M?

RG: We can explore that, let me take that offer to Chris.

MG: Tell him I'll toss in a full NTC.....


No need to go on here. Gillis has two options with Tanev. Get ready to pony up some cap space, or trade him for a good return and move on. The former is going to be tricky as that will mean that he is committed to giving blueline spots 1 through 5 more than $4M each, and not one of those spots will truly fill the role of a PPQB or consistent and reliable puck moving defenseman.

The only way Gillis can create other options is to start asking some guys to waive their NTC's.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby BladesofSteel » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:55 pm

AFAIK, neither player is eligible for a NTC/NMC for at least another 3 years. While they can be negotiated into their next contract (should it be long term), the NTC wouldn't come into affect until they reach the age of 27. Again, IIRC.

eg. Kesler's current contract. JVR's deal etc.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby Listercat » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:35 pm

If MG has to give Tanev a significant raise to retain him I say do it.

Meds you keep going on about getting a puck moving D man per Errorhoff. I would say who of the current crop of Canucks D men consistently makes tape to tape passes? The answer is Tanev. This kid is 24 years old has only had 1 1/2 seasons in the NHL prior to this year. He has improved measurably since his first appearance in the Playoffs in 2011.

Erhoff was often guilty of defensive lapses, Tanev very rarely. Erhoff was picked up by MG at age 27 from the Sharks because they had no place for him in their lineup. It wasn't until he came to the Canucks and played with the Sedins et al that he became an offensive threat. Under AV's system Erhoff played protected minutes, meaning he didn't face other team's top lines and rarely played on the PK. Tanev plays mostly against the top lines and on the PK.

Tanev this season has become comfortable enough to join the rush with excellent results. He reads the play very well and with more experience I can see him improving his offensive stats. He will never have Erhoff's shot but he is a very intelligent player and those are hard to come by especially amongst D men.

Unfortunately Alex Edler has not improved the way we had hoped. His biggest issue is inconsistency and to be honest he just does not show he is an intelligent hockey player. It's unfortunate because he has all the tools but the most important one.

Those who insist that Tanev be traded in order to bring back a top 6 forward need to ask if that would really be helping the team. Teams try to develop good young players for the long term not to give them away to plug a hole in the lineup.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:03 pm

Meds wrote:No need to go on here. Gillis has two options with Tanev. Get ready to pony up some cap space, or trade him for a good return and move on. The former is going to be tricky as that will mean that he is committed to giving blueline spots 1 through 5 more than $4M each, and not one of those spots will truly fill the role of a PPQB or consistent and reliable puck moving defenseman.

The only way Gillis can create other options is to start asking some guys to waive their NTC's.


Why does Gillis have to do anything of this? Tanev isn't going anywhere. He plays less per game than Edler, Bieksa, Hamhuis and Garrison. He's not hitting an open market. He's sandwiched between Sami Vatanen (22 years old, better PPG) and Justin Braun (plays more minutes at a lower salary) at 85th in D-man scoring.

The biggest descriptors I've seen about Tanev is "steady", "poised", "calm". He doesn't wow anyone, and he doesn't control the game. He's not going to get an RFA offer we wouldn't match, and nobody is giving him $3.5-$4M per in arbitration.

Nick Leddy had a 37 point, and was on pace for a 30+ point lockout season, and signed for a $2.7M cap hit. You think Tanev (20-point pace) will get $1.3M more than that? Sorry, Tanev is not getting Slava Voynov, Cam Fowler, Marc Staal, or Kevin Shattenkirk money.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby Meds » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:11 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Meds wrote:No need to go on here. Gillis has two options with Tanev. Get ready to pony up some cap space, or trade him for a good return and move on. The former is going to be tricky as that will mean that he is committed to giving blueline spots 1 through 5 more than $4M each, and not one of those spots will truly fill the role of a PPQB or consistent and reliable puck moving defenseman.

The only way Gillis can create other options is to start asking some guys to waive their NTC's.



The biggest descriptors I've seen about Tanev is "steady", "poised", "calm". He doesn't wow anyone, and he doesn't control the game. He's not going to get an RFA offer we wouldn't match, and nobody is giving him $3.5-$4M per in arbitration.


Hmmm.....sounds a lot like the a guy we signed a few years ago. I think his name is Dan Hamhuis. Ever heard of him? :look:

Island Nucklehead wrote:Nick Leddy had a 37 point, and was on pace for a 30+ point lockout season, and signed for a $2.7M cap hit. You think Tanev (20-point pace) will get $1.3M more than that? Sorry, Tanev is not getting Slava Voynov, Cam Fowler, Marc Staal, or Kevin Shattenkirk money.


Well why not? Hamhuis has only eclipsed 30 points once in his career. Tanev is on pace for 25 points this season, he plays a similar style defensively, and makes better passes. We gave Hamhuis $4.5M.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:18 pm

Meds wrote:Hmmm.....sounds a lot like the a guy we signed a few years ago. I think his name is Dan Hamhuis. Ever heard of him? :look:

Hamhuis has only eclipsed 30 points once in his career. Tanev is on pace for 25 points this season, he plays a similar style defensively, and makes better passes. We gave Hamhuis $4.5M.


You do know the difference between Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency, don't you?
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby Meds » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:50 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Meds wrote:Hmmm.....sounds a lot like the a guy we signed a few years ago. I think his name is Dan Hamhuis. Ever heard of him? :look:

Hamhuis has only eclipsed 30 points once in his career. Tanev is on pace for 25 points this season, he plays a similar style defensively, and makes better passes. We gave Hamhuis $4.5M.


You do know the difference between Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency, don't you?


No. I don't. Care to explain it to me? :mex:

Tanev was RFA last year and signed a one year contract because, one, he didn't really want to go play in the Swiss league or in the KHL, and two, because no offer sheets were coming thanks to the cap crunch. This year he will be RFA again and looking to cash in on what has been another excellent campaign for him. He is having an even better season this year, and there are plenty of defensemen who have been drafted in the first and second rounds who have not even come close to developing into the kind of player that we have in Tanev. I'm pretty sure that if Gillis tries to get the "hometown" discount with Tanev there will be a few other GM's that are willing to sacrifice a pick or two in compensation to attain his services.

You do know what an offer sheet is, don't you? :look:
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby dbr » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:12 pm

You know, Dan Hamhuis's last contract was a four year deal that took him to age 27 (ie. unrestricted free agency). Four years, $8m.

The cap ceiling in the first year of that deal was $44m I think, if you take the percentage of that ceiling Hamhuis occupied and prorated it to a $71m ceiling it's about $3.25m.

The major difference is that Tanev is just starting to show any kind of offensive upside this year, Hamhuis had a 38 point season immediately prior to signing his deal with the Preds - and just one NHL season before that in which he put up 26 points. This is the first year where Tanev looks like he could hit 26, nevermind 38.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby Meds » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:27 pm

dbr wrote:You know, Dan Hamhuis's last contract was a four year deal that took him to age 27 (ie. unrestricted free agency). Four years, $8m.

The cap ceiling in the first year of that deal was $44m I think, if you take the percentage of that ceiling Hamhuis occupied and prorated it to a $71m ceiling it's about $3.25m.

The major difference is that Tanev is just starting to show any kind of offensive upside this year, Hamhuis had a 38 point season immediately prior to signing his deal with the Preds - and just one NHL season before that in which he put up 26 points. This is the first year where Tanev looks like he could hit 26, nevermind 38.


And Hamhuis promptly dropped back down to being a middling 20's point producer the next year, and for the remainder of that contract. At which point he was given $27M over 6 years.

My original post was pretty much pointing out the way Tanev's agent can approach this.....and likely will if Gillis is looking for any kind of term.

The way he has played I'm thinking $2.5M is going to be seen as a low ball offer. He might not get up to $4M, but I'm willing to be that he's closer to $3.5M. The only way he signs at $2.5M is if it is the shortest deal he can sign to take him to UFA.....and even then I wouldn't put him below $3M a year.

Happy to be wrong though.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby Listercat » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:43 pm

In fairness to Hammer he was replaced by Weber on the Preds PP.
When he came to the Canucks he became part of the shutdown pairing with Bieksa facing the other team's top lines. With Edler as the LH shot on the PP he didn't see much time on the PP either until this year.

As bad as the Canucks have been this year Hammer and his partner Tanev lead the team in +- They play against the other team's top lines.
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Re: Kassian and Tanev's next contracts

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:57 pm

Meds wrote:My original post was pretty much pointing out the way Tanev's agent can approach this.....and likely will if Gillis is looking for any kind of term.

The way he has played I'm thinking $2.5M is going to be seen as a low ball offer. He might not get up to $4M, but I'm willing to be that he's closer to $3.5M. The only way he signs at $2.5M is if it is the shortest deal he can sign to take him to UFA.....and even then I wouldn't put him below $3M a year.


Sure, and if Gillis wants to eat multiple years of UFA eligibility he will have to pay for them. Tanev doesn't have much leverage here. He can file for arbitration, or hope to get an offer sheet.


Meds wrote:You do know what an offer sheet is, don't you? :look:


I also fully expect Tanev to file for arbitration, in which case he's not eligible to receive offer sheets.

In arbitration, the Canucks will point to his depth role on the team, and his limited offensive stats. Sure he plays decent minutes, but still lower than the top-4 on the team. With 7 career NHL goals so far, I don't see him getting a huge award.

If he decides to avoid arbitration in the hopes of getting an offer sheet, anything over $3.36 million gets the Canucks a 1st and a 3rd round pick. I'm pretty sure the Canucks would let Tanev go for that type of return. On top of that, when guys like Pietrangelo and Subban don't get offer-sheeted, the chances of Tanev getting one are slim. GM's don't usually piss in eachothers cornflakes for fun, and Tanev is not an impact player.

Furthermore, there are far better RFA d-men to go after this summer: Justin Schutlz, Gudbranson, Subban, Franson, Krug etc. etc.

I think giving him a $1M raise should be plenty fair for Tanev. Especially considering PK Subban signed an RFA (bridge) deal for $2.85M after seasons of 38 and 34 points (and 21 goals combined).
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