Just for you Pacific Blue

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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby Meds » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:42 am

RoyalDude wrote:Sorry blobby lagers but this post of yours reeks of a Gillis Apologist. You like Gillis more than Tony Bones Gallagher

C fucking plus? Are you kidding me? How do you give a GM a C plus for watching his team go from an nhl elite team to barely hanging onto a playoff spot while the Canucks elite peers like the Blackhawks, Sharks etc remain at an elite level?

I could live with a c minus. But a c+???? No way Jose


By this logic Ken Holland is an absolute asshat of a GM and on track to be one of the shittiest hockey minds in recent history. I mean, his top forwards are all getting old (all but Zetterberg are older than the Sedins), he has a question mark between the pipes, they haven't gone beyond the 2nd round since 2009, the team has trended down in the regular season to the point where they are now a playoff bubble team in the eastern conference (were Detroit still in the West this year I would put them in 9th or 10th right now), and there is nobody of not waiting in the minors to step up.

Keep smoking what you're smoking dude.
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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby dbr » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:32 am

Bottom line, Gillis took a mediocre organization with some great pieces and turned it into a Stanley Cup contender - without doing the groundwork to turn that mediocre organization into a great one first.

When we made the Stanley Cup Final (and Gillis was the toast of NHL executives I might add) we had exactly three prospects of any significant coming down the pike, Hodgson Tanev and Schroeder.

Gillis spent what little Nonis had left in the prospect pool (compensatory pick for White, Grabner... ?) building his Stanley Cup Contender and didn't do a good enough job backfilling the gaping hole he was left in the cupboards - don't hear RoyalDude falling all over himself to credit this aspect of the Canucks situation to Nonis and Burke.

His first few drafts weren't good enough (not enough picks, not good enough use of the ones he had) for the Canucks we have now to be boosted by a significant youth movement. He's kept enough players in the fold on new deals that their raises chewed through most of the cap space that's been available, and with a falling cap and the same level of spending this team had three seasons ago (combined with that lack of a youth movement) it's little wonder this team suffers badly from a lack of depth.

We bought that 2010-11 team on credit and are paying for it now. HOPEFULLY Gillis' drafting has improved enough that he can rebuild this team the right way and the 2013 class looks nice so far but as recently as 2012 there's some real off the wall picks (Mallet) that don't look great so far.

We'll see what happens. If Gillis proves to be as good at building depth from the ground up as he was initially at filling out an incomplete roster then I think he'll deserve high marks across the board. As it is now I think he gets real high marks for the early years and some barely passing grades the last couple - but unlike some posters I don't blame him for failing to, I don't know, assassinate David Booth to get rid of his cap hit or what have you.
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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby Meds » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:06 am

dbr wrote:Bottom line, Gillis took a mediocre organization with some great pieces and turned it into a Stanley Cup contender - without doing the groundwork to turn that mediocre organization into a great one first.

When we made the Stanley Cup Final (and Gillis was the toast of NHL executives I might add) we had exactly three prospects of any significant coming down the pike, Hodgson Tanev and Schroeder.

Gillis spent what little Nonis had left in the prospect pool (compensatory pick for White, Grabner... ?) building his Stanley Cup Contender and didn't do a good enough job backfilling the gaping hole he was left in the cupboards - don't hear RoyalDude falling all over himself to credit this aspect of the Canucks situation to Nonis and Burke.

His first few drafts weren't good enough (not enough picks, not good enough use of the ones he had) for the Canucks we have now to be boosted by a significant youth movement. He's kept enough players in the fold on new deals that their raises chewed through most of the cap space that's been available, and with a falling cap and the same level of spending this team had three seasons ago (combined with that lack of a youth movement) it's little wonder this team suffers badly from a lack of depth.

We bought that 2010-11 team on credit and are paying for it now. HOPEFULLY Gillis' drafting has improved enough that he can rebuild this team the right way and the 2013 class looks nice so far but as recently as 2012 there's some real off the wall picks (Mallet) that don't look great so far.

We'll see what happens. If Gillis proves to be as good at building depth from the ground up as he was initially at filling out an incomplete roster then I think he'll deserve high marks across the board. As it is now I think he gets real high marks for the early years and some barely passing grades the last couple - but unlike some posters I don't blame him for failing to, I don't know, assassinate David Booth to get rid of his cap hit or what have you.


Nice take DBR. But even your example of Mallet as an off the wall pick has to take into account that he was a late 2nd round choice, and if you skim over the names that followed him you won't find any that make you pull your hair out because he passed on them.

There are only two things that really jumps out at me as an error on MG's part, the first is Keith Ballard. The trade for him was fine, but after a full season and a half of Vigneault not playing him at all, Gillis should have dealt him for whatever return he could get. I think it looks bad on any GM when he buys a player out after sitting on him for nearly 3 seasons where the player either didn't play much at all, or was playing below the level he was at before. The second thing is the NTC's that he has handed out to what seems like half of the roster. I know that it helps keep talent in the fold at a bit of a discount, and that can be chalked up to where you say he built the 2011 team on credit, but as of last season it should have been painfully obvious that this team is no longer a contender, and NTC's should NOT have been given to Burrows, Edler, and Higgins (limited).
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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby Arachnid » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:41 pm

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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby Island Nucklehead » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:44 pm

dbr wrote:We bought that 2010-11 team on credit and are paying for it now. HOPEFULLY Gillis' drafting has improved enough that he can rebuild this team the right way and the 2013 class looks nice so far but as recently as 2012 there's some real off the wall picks (Mallet) that don't look great so far.


Yeah, and we were within 60 minutes of a Stanley Cup. Hindsight is great, isn't it? If you would've told me in 2009 that we can move some futures for a one-game chance at the Cup I would've said "fuckin' A, get'r done."

Sensible people know that with the Cap declining, the inability to move Luongo (thanks to a lockout), and some injuries (no Booth Buyout, Sedin and Kesler injuries heading into the playoffs) really hurt us the past couple years. Some of that has to do with Gillis, some is just circumstance and chance. For all these reasons, the best Gillis could do was some tinkering (Hodgson-Kassian) and trades for futures (Schneider). What we do know is that there are some prospects in the pipe, we should be able to buy Booth out this summer, and the Cap is going to rise again. Gillis' hands are less tied, and we will see what he comes up with. For all the talk of staying elite, I'm sure management was aware of the situation for last season and this one.

Maybe our window has passed, maybe the youth movement can buy us a few more years. I don't see why people are so insistent on bitching and moaning about the present. One game. We win Game 7 and there's a shrine to Gillis outside Rogers. We lost, tough shit, and now he gets roasted as though HIS team has been a total failure. I'm sorry, but that's bed-wetting BS.
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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby Strangelove » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:59 pm

Mondi wrote:A "c" is a terrible grade for someone who is supposed to be one of the top 30 hockey minds in the world.


Ummm… you get an "f" for that comment.

You see my dear Mondi, a "c" grade would mean GMMG is middle of the pack among the 30 GMs....

Mondi wrote:The reason he can't get a better mark based on 2 awesome years in 10/11 and 11/12 is that all of the guys who carried the team were acquired by Nonis/Burke (save for Hammer).


So Gillis' peers were out to lunch when they voted him NHL General Manager of the Year in 10/11??

(NHL GM of the Year Award = A+ btw)

Ummm… another "f" for "u" Mondi! :lol:
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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby Strangelove » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:03 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
dbr wrote:We bought that 2010-11 team on credit and are paying for it now. HOPEFULLY Gillis' drafting has improved enough that he can rebuild this team the right way and the 2013 class looks nice so far but as recently as 2012 there's some real off the wall picks (Mallet) that don't look great so far.


Yeah, and we were within 60 minutes of a Stanley Cup. Hindsight is great, isn't it? If you would've told me in 2009 that we can move some futures for a one-game chance at the Cup I would've said "fuckin' A, get'r done."

Sensible people know that with the Cap declining, the inability to move Luongo (thanks to a lockout), and some injuries (no Booth Buyout, Sedin and Kesler injuries heading into the playoffs) really hurt us the past couple years. Some of that has to do with Gillis, some is just circumstance and chance. For all these reasons, the best Gillis could do was some tinkering (Hodgson-Kassian) and trades for futures (Schneider). What we do know is that there are some prospects in the pipe, we should be able to buy Booth out this summer, and the Cap is going to rise again. Gillis' hands are less tied, and we will see what he comes up with. For all the talk of staying elite, I'm sure management was aware of the situation for last season and this one.

Maybe our window has passed, maybe the youth movement can buy us a few more years. I don't see why people are so insistent on bitching and moaning about the present. One game. We win Game 7 and there's a shrine to Gillis outside Rogers. We lost, tough shit, and now he gets roasted as though HIS team has been a total failure. I'm sorry, but that's bed-wetting BS.


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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:48 pm

Meds wrote:Nice take DBR. But even your example of Mallet as an off the wall pick has to take into account that he was a late 2nd round choice, and if you skim over the names that followed him you won't find any that make you pull your hair out because he passed on them.

.


Yes there were - Josh Anderson and Taylor Leier were available
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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby Island Nucklehead » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:05 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Meds wrote:Nice take DBR. But even your example of Mallet as an off the wall pick has to take into account that he was a late 2nd round choice, and if you skim over the names that followed him you won't find any that make you pull your hair out because he passed on them.

.


Yes there were - Josh Anderson and Taylor Leier were available


What makes them so special? Anderson will be 20 this spring and is under a PPG on the London Knights. Leier is doing well, but is also not standing out on his own Junior squad and will be 20 next month.

Not really defending the Mallet pick (Damon Severson went 2 picks later, Adam Pelech went 8), but it's quite early to be picking favorites from the post-1st round 2012 draft class and calling guys busts.
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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby Meds » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:29 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Mondi wrote:The reason he can't get a better mark based on 2 awesome years in 10/11 and 11/12 is that all of the guys who carried the team were acquired by Nonis/Burke (save for Hammer).


So Gillis' peers were out to lunch when they voted him NHL General Manager of the Year in 10/11??

(NHL GM of the Year Award = A+ btw)

Ummm… another "f" for "u" Mondi! :lol:


Apparently our 4th and 5th leading scorers in the 2010-11 regular season were irrelevant to the team success.

Ehrhoff, Higgins, Lap, and Torres, were also total passengers come the playoffs in 2011.

Is it just me or is Mondi spelled O-b-t-u-s-e?
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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby Meds » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:31 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Meds wrote:Nice take DBR. But even your example of Mallet as an off the wall pick has to take into account that he was a late 2nd round choice, and if you skim over the names that followed him you won't find any that make you pull your hair out because he passed on them.

.


Yes there were - Josh Anderson and Taylor Leier were available


What makes them so special? Anderson will be 20 this spring and is under a PPG on the London Knights. Leier is doing well, but is also not standing out on his own Junior squad and will be 20 next month.


Don't you know Island? They were passed on by Mike Gillis. That makes them future superstars.
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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby SKYO » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:55 pm

dbr wrote:Bottom line, Gillis took a mediocre organization with some great pieces and turned it into a Stanley Cup contender - without doing the groundwork to turn that mediocre organization into a great one first.


Oddly enough what MG did to surround the core he inherited is exactly what he still needs to do right now.

2nd line winger (sammy)
right side qb (ehrhoff)
3rd line center (manny)
4th line center (lappy)
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Re: Just for you Pacific Blue

Postby Meds » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:09 pm

SKYO wrote:
dbr wrote:Bottom line, Gillis took a mediocre organization with some great pieces and turned it into a Stanley Cup contender - without doing the groundwork to turn that mediocre organization into a great one first.


Oddly enough what MG did to surround the core he inherited is exactly what he still needs to do right now.

2nd line winger (sammy)
right side qb (ehrhoff)
3rd line center (manny)
4th line center (lappy)


I think you can scratch the 3rd and 4th items off the list. Last time Gillis filled all of those spots via trade (well not Manny I suppose), this time around I get the impression he has a plan to fill two of those spots from within the organization.

A trade should still be made to secure that top 6 winger, and possibly to acquire the QB.

3rd and 4th line pivot spots are looking like they are up for grabs and we have Gaunce, Horvat, Schroeder, Lain, and Richardson, all in the mix.

As a fan base we are notoriously impatient.....goes with a 44 year Cup drought. But I think that now is the time for everyone to exercise just that little bit extra measure of patience. We know this team will need a miracle to do anything in the playoffs, but next season will be, IMO, the measuring stick for Gillis. If the picks he's made in the last few years are ready, and if he can make a couple of significant moves before next season, then the first half of the year will be what he is judged by going forward.....and I suppose the verdict will dictate whether or not he does indeed go forward.
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