What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck team?

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What is happening to the team right now?

Slump.
22
34%
Downward slope.
16
25%
Flu.
1
2%
Injuries.
8
13%
Fatigue.
7
11%
Other.
3
5%
Nothing fool! Now shut your yap.
7
11%
 
Total votes : 64

Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby Lancer » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:08 am

Don't know if it's a matter of comfort, but a matter of dealing from what position of strength Gillis has at hand.

The only areas of which the team has a plethora of assets are D, and bottom-six wingers. Throw in some prospects and either 1st or mid-round picks, and that's what Gillis has to deal.

Forget wasting cap space on 30+ UFAs and soon-to-be UFAs like Vanek, etc. The team has enough 30-somethings on roster and what's available isn't going to help the team get through the likes of what's ahead of them in the western conference. Time for Gillis to bite the bullet, make a deal for a top-6 sniper/power forward in their 20s and pay what he must without utterly wrecking the roster. It will take cajoling some out of their NTCs and adopting some significant risk, but that's where this team needs to go to vie for the Cup not just in the short term but the middle term as well.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:50 am

Spot on Lancer

Problem being, not so sure Gillis possesses the common sense as to where this team is at, I get the impression he thinks more of this group than he really should. This core is tapped out. Gillis has failed to surround this core with more good young core types. Making like Skyo and trading for a Vanek reminds me if a deal we would make in the miserable Messier, Mogilny, Bure years. Getting worn down vets is not the route to take, getting good young talent who can play now but are the future core faces of this team as the Sedin era comes to an end,

All the good western conference teams core players are young, young and young. We are old in that department. Wasting futures on worn down 30 year old cheque collecting vets is a big waste of fucking time and money,

Just not sure our current GM knows where this team is at and therefore the potential for Vanek damaging trade is there. I see more Roy/Pahlsson/Booth/Ballard trades out of Gillis yet
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby Lancer » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:27 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Spot on Lancer


(Still picking myself off the ground)

Dude, you can't just creep up and do that to me like that! What is this, the forum version of the knock-out game? :eh:

RoyalDude wrote:Problem being, not so sure Gillis possesses the common sense as to where this team is at, I get the impression he thinks more of this group than he really should. This core is tapped out. Gillis has failed to surround this core with more good young core types. Making like Skyo and trading for a Vanek reminds me if a deal we would make in the miserable Messier, Mogilny, Bure years. Getting worn down vets is not the route to take, getting good young talent who can play now but are the future core faces of this team as the Sedin era comes to an end,

All the good western conference teams core players are young, young and young. We are old in that department. Wasting futures on worn down 30 year old cheque collecting vets is a big waste of fucking time and money,

Just not sure our current GM knows where this team is at and therefore the potential for Vanek damaging trade is there. I see more Roy/Pahlsson/Booth/Ballard trades out of Gillis yet.


I think if Gillis were to do a trade like that, he likely would have by now. Similar deals have already gone down this season. Not saying it's impossible - the trade deadline is still a ways away - but I get the sense that Gillis knows the kind of trade he needs to do but can't swallow the prices in front of him. That's the problem I see with him is he's not willing to do a trade which might make him seem like he's been put over the barrel. I think some teams are playing hardball with him like they have since Luongo was put on the market and he's not willing to budge. I get that, but it doesn't make the roster any better in the meantime.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby Topper » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:44 pm

Arachnid wrote:
SKYO wrote:circle the wagons --> throwing firewater --> vancouver riots.


Careful SYKO or Tops will give you one of his imported diseases :D

Sadly, diphtheria blankets, while a great idea,in theory, in practice,they do not work.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby SKYO » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:00 pm

Topper wrote:
Arachnid wrote:Careful SYKO or Tops will give you one of his imported diseases :D

Sadly, diphtheria blankets, while a great idea,in theory, in practice,they do not work.

Yup, nice try.

---

Besides vanek :D
Edler for Nyquist + Smith makes the most sense...

Nyquist is a LW/C, center being key here as he can step in 2nd line center when injuries occur and he can center our crappy 2nd unit powerplay.

We get a work-in-progress Smith, at least he can play right side and has offensive upside, and we don't lose defensive depth. We can just hope he plays well with Garrison.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby SKYO » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:20 pm

Lancer wrote:Forget wasting cap space on 30+ UFAs and soon-to-be UFAs like Vanek, etc.

Why, cause he's one of the best LW'ers in the world?

The team has enough 30-somethings on roster

This team is middle aged, vanek could be like our own more talented version of hossa.

what's available isn't going to help the team get through the likes of what's ahead of them in the western conference.

What's available is Moulson, Vanek, Camm, they are added weapons to use to our solid core that needs new arsenal.

Time for Gillis to bite the bullet, make a deal for a top-6 sniper/power forward in their 20s and pay what he must without utterly wrecking the roster.

It will take cajoling some out of their NTCs and adopting some significant risk, but that's where this team needs to go to vie for the Cup not just in the short term but the middle term as well.


Vanek/Moulson satisfies the short and mid-long term, exactly what the Sedins/Kesler need to succeed.

But agreed with this part, Edler is the man to trade to get that top 6 sniper in their 20s.

And yes I'm sick of this Vanek talk now, lol. 8-)
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby Mondi » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:21 pm

dbr wrote:
Mondi wrote:I don't think it's obvious to the Canucks coaches or management that this is a "wasted year".


"Wasted year" is Pauser's preferred term for a season where we neither dump the Sedins for scraps, nor are by a wide margin the best team in the league.

Those of us without emotional imbalances prefer to call it "retooling" or what have you.

There are things that can be done to win now and later.

Just because one "pays attention" and notes that the team is bad, and I mean putrid, offensively, does not mean that the team couldn't be improved in some ways (i.e. that's what a good GM does).


And yes management should continue to try to improve the roster and the personnel should continue to try to win, nobody is saying any different. There's lots of room for reasonable discussion about those things.

If you think Vinny Prospal is anything other than Jan Hlavac: The Sequel, then you're overly optimistic. If you think he's going to help the team in the future, you're wrong.


Hey if you want to find an actual post where someone said the thing you're disagreeing with, prior to disagreeing with it, I would appreciate that.

I don't think you can. I think the most positive thing anyone has said is that it's a no risk move.

(But Hlavac is a weird comparison, a never was who was playing his way out of the NHL at his peak as a player.. compared to Prospal who despite being slow as molasses has scored at a respectable rate for years now. I don't think it's likely he does that this year, but beyond their nationality I don't really see a basis for comparison. They're both forwards?)

It is fair to point out the shortcomings of a GM who has dismantled (not improved) a team that was unstoppable just 3 short seasons ago. Or are you enjoying the fruits of Michael Grabner, a first rounder, Cody Hodgson and, Cory Schneider? Also, remember Salo, Erhoff and Samuelsson? They, who were let go for nothing.


Yeah. I have no problem with discussing those things. If you think the GM should be fired that's fine, I don't agree right now but that's fine and I'm totally willing to discuss it.

What I have a problem with is having any hope for reasonable discussion completely fucking demolished by people who know full well the current shortcomings of this team, have known what they would be since July, and still can't stop becoming unhinged about them in January. Those people need to get a grip.

But anyway like I said, I have no problem with people debating the job management has done here, I've done it at length on several occasions, recently at great length here. In fact it was in direct response to one of your posts Mondi but I don't believe you even bothered to reply.

So what exactly is your point here, are you just dropping in to defend the whiners and complainers and attempt to legitimize their emotional response, or do you want to actually take part in decent discussion?


My point, is that the Canucks have two forwards out of the lineup and the GM has put them in a position where they scratch a third player (Booth) and dress a defensemen at forward.

In my respectful opinion, the fault there lies with Mike Gillis.

And, it is fucking embarrassing for the team.

Also, they scored 8 goals in a seven game span. That's my point.

(Also the Hlavac reference was a comparison of useless European forwards).
Last edited by Mondi on Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby Mondi » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:22 pm

Also, their PP is 28.

With two former Art Ross trophy winners playing 50%+ of all PP time.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:45 pm

I'd be waiving Booth right now. If we are lucky someone picks him up. If not we free up $900,000 in cap and a roster spot.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:56 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I'd be waiving Booth right now. If we are lucky someone picks him up. If not we free up $900,000 in cap and a roster spot.



No one will pick him up. Traditional buyout at the end of the year. Pay him half his remaining 4.25 and its a 1.125 mill cap hit for two seasons. Then compliance buyout Burrows if he doesn't regain form. That gives the club 7.65 million in cap space just from those two moves. Hopefully Luo continues his solid play of late and a team dangles a prospect/pick for him and they have piles of cash to play with on July 1st.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby SKYO » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:51 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:I'd be waiving Booth right now. If we are lucky someone picks him up. If not we free up $900,000 in cap and a roster spot.



No one will pick him up. Traditional buyout at the end of the year. Pay him half his remaining 4.25 and its a 1.125 mill cap hit for two seasons. Then compliance buyout Burrows if he doesn't regain form. That gives the club 7.65 million in cap space just from those two moves. Hopefully Luo continues his solid play of late and a team dangles a prospect/pick for him and they have piles of cash to play with on July 1st.


That or trade him for Erat, I know people hate that ideal and hate Erat's style of play plus fear of how he would do under Torts, but it's a real low risk transaction, the worst thing that could happen is he still plays like crap and we just simply buy him out at the end of the season, but that's the exact same thing the team is going to do regarding Booth.

It's a no harm, no foul type of deal, plus isn't compliance buying out Erat cheaper than Booth for the Aquabros? cause his actual salary is much lower this season and next.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby dbr » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:44 am

Mondi wrote:My point, is that the Canucks have two forwards out of the lineup and the GM has put them in a position where they scratch a third player (Booth) and dress a defensemen at forward.

In my respectful opinion, the fault there lies with Mike Gillis.


Booth is a difficult situation. Last offseason he couldn't be bought out due to his injury so you're talking about a team already trying to get younger spending draft picks just to dump him on another team for one season. (Personally I'm glad they didn't do that.) The shortened season he was injured most of the year so you couldn't move him then. Prior to that was the lockout taking us back to September 2012 which is about a year after the Canucks acquired him, in that year he'd been hurt once but had also strung a lot of games together with strong play and respectable scoring, I don't think it was at all cut-and-dried that he needed to be dumped at any cost at that point.

And, it is fucking embarrassing for the team.


Really? I mean it's a shitty situation, but embarrassing? Do you think the players are ducking out of the locker room early because they can't look people in the eye over a useless player on their roster? They somehow managed to do it with Keith Ballard for three years so I don't see why this would be very different.

Also, they scored 8 goals in a seven game span. That's my point.


Yeah uhh, it's a tough stretch. They are a worse team this year AND they have two top six forwards out of the lineup AND they have been slumping pretty bad. It's a recipe for disaster on the ice. Two of those three things can happen to any team any season regardless of the quality GM-ing they are getting, but you know.

(Also the Hlavac reference was a comparison of useless European forwards).


Oh so you wanted to look stupid. Gotcha. ;)
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby rats19 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:07 am

Booth will have to be a buyout for the simple fact that no one will want him at that price. We healthy scratch him all the time which doesn't help trade value.

He will then do a Ballard and sign for 1.5 somewhere...
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby dbr » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:47 am

He'll have to stay healthy to be a buy out.

At this point and the way this season is going, unless they want to "showcase" him and try to build him up to be good enough to deal for Martin Erat or some other headache, I would prefer they just shut him down and wait for their CBO shot.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Postby Mondi » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:21 pm

dbr wrote:
Mondi wrote:My point, is that the Canucks have two forwards out of the lineup and the GM has put them in a position where they scratch a third player (Booth) and dress a defensemen at forward.

In my respectful opinion, the fault there lies with Mike Gillis.


Booth is a difficult situation. Last offseason he couldn't be bought out due to his injury so you're talking about a team already trying to get younger spending draft picks just to dump him on another team for one season. (Personally I'm glad they didn't do that.) The shortened season he was injured most of the year so you couldn't move him then. Prior to that was the lockout taking us back to September 2012 which is about a year after the Canucks acquired him, in that year he'd been hurt once but had also strung a lot of games together with strong play and respectable scoring, I don't think it was at all cut-and-dried that he needed to be dumped at any cost at that point.

And, it is fucking embarrassing for the team.


Really? I mean it's a shitty situation, but embarrassing? Do you think the players are ducking out of the locker room early because they can't look people in the eye over a useless player on their roster? They somehow managed to do it with Keith Ballard for three years so I don't see why this would be very different.

Also, they scored 8 goals in a seven game span. That's my point.


Yeah uhh, it's a tough stretch. They are a worse team this year AND they have two top six forwards out of the lineup AND they have been slumping pretty bad. It's a recipe for disaster on the ice. Two of those three things can happen to any team any season regardless of the quality GM-ing they are getting, but you know.

(Also the Hlavac reference was a comparison of useless European forwards).


Oh so you wanted to look stupid. Gotcha. ;)


Don't be a prick. I said Prospal would have been about as useful as Hlavac was, whether that was accurate can never be known. But, it is my opinion and it is certainly not stupid to assert that a 38-year-old player who has not been playing any games this season might be useless. Remember Mats after all?

Furthermore, the ineptitude of Gillis is not embarrasing for the individual players, don't be asinine. What is embarrasing is that his team is so lacking depth that with 2 players out from the top 9, you have to start dressing Weber at foward becuase your coach refuses to play a healthy player making $4 million.

As for your long-winded defense of Booth, I don't disagree with anything you said. I was not advocating for ex post facto assessment of why Vancouver didn't get rid of him. All I'm saying is that the guy sucks, and GIllis acquired him. He's a $4 million dollar healthy scratch and he's not our first under this GM.

Heck, I think Gillis did a decent job the first bit here. I'm not even all over him (like others), what bothers me is how quickly the Canucks went from juggernaut to average.
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