What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck team?

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What is happening to the team right now?

Slump.
22
34%
Downward slope.
16
25%
Flu.
1
2%
Injuries.
8
13%
Fatigue.
7
11%
Other.
3
5%
Nothing fool! Now shut your yap.
7
11%
 
Total votes: 64

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mathonwy
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by mathonwy »

5thhorseman wrote:Is this a long-winded way of saying the Canucks should "go to the mattresses"?
Yeah.. I'm trying to figure out what kind of analogy BoS is trying to draw with his awesome dump story..
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by Meds »

mathonwy wrote:
5thhorseman wrote:Is this a long-winded way of saying the Canucks should "go to the mattresses"?
Yeah.. I'm trying to figure out what kind of analogy BoS is trying to draw with his awesome dump story..
I think he's saying that people were there trying to get the Canucks player's old mattresses that were being thrown out because they all pissed the bed.....
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by SKYO »

Mëds wrote:I think he's saying that people were there trying to get the Canucks player's old mattresses that were being thrown out because they all pissed the bed.....
or deeper than that, the rich have suffered too long paying outrageous season ticket prices while sleeping on yellow mattresses, so now they sold their tickets to finally get new ones.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by Topper »

ahhh the mattress line
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Lancer
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by Lancer »

This has gone from a slump to an all-out train wreck. The players look demoralized, beat up and dispirited. No confidence whatsoever. Any morale-building they may have gained from their knuckle-dusting team-building activities seems to have dissipated in the wind.

All the more irritating to see the smug mugs on TSN saying that Gillis HAS to do something, inferring that even if it's a rental and a bad deal, Gillis has GOT to go for it.

Sorry, but I'm for letting this train wreck end in a smouldering heap. I don't care if this is the thinnest draft since '92, but better for this season to finish without the playoffs than to delude anybody that this team is within anything other than a massive shake-up to contend for the cup. Better to take a top-10 pick Gillis can use either to draft some plug with promise or dangle in a deal for an impact player. Stick a fork in this crew, because they look done. Bad breaks, bad injuries, bad slumps and some of the worst post-contract hang-overs this team has seen in living memory. Sort through the debris in April, figure out what kind of team they want (realistically this time, and with some heavy input from Torts) jettison the junk - even if for a bucket of pucks, and have some heart-to-hearts at certain individuals with the aim of getting trade lists submitted and getting the higher-priced junk out of town.

This is getting harder to watch by the day.
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Island Nucklehead
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by Island Nucklehead »

What's happening:

1) Our best players are having awful years. Burrows, Edler and the Sedins, for a combination of injuries and uninspired play, have not been good enough.

2) Lack of offensive depth. When the guys listed at 1) are slumping, folks like Higgins, Hansen, Kassian etc. aren't enough to hold the fort. We lack at least one top-6 winger.

3) No cap space. We can't make any aggressive moves, because we have little wiggle room to move assets or salary freely.

4) The rest of the league is good! We haven't been able to maintain that elite status from a couple years ago because the cap dropped, our prospects haven't been quick to develop, and our players are getting older. It's not rocket science.

What has to happen:

1. Booth buyout. Dude's gotta go, we need that space.

2. Find a quality winger that can play in the top-6 without the Sedins. I don't believe Burrows is that guy, so might as well leave him with the Sedins, because he should find chemistry again at some point. Kassian is developing the chops to play in the top-6, and Kesler. We need our Hossa/Sharp, however. Evander Kane? Chris Stewart? Ryan O'Reilly? All guys that have been in the trade mill, but will cost the Canucks.

3. Puckmoving d-man. This may be tough, given our NTC's on the back-end. But if we can convince one of them to move, a guy like Keith Yandle (who's always mentioned in rumours) would be great. They might want an Edler in return? But we should have the assets to make that deal happen. A true puck-mover that can skate would vastly improve our options on both the PP and zone entry.

4. Young kids have to step up. I expect Horvat to be on the roster next season. Ideally the Canucks could roll Sedin-Kesler-Horvat-Richardson, with the latter two flip flopping depending on opposition and situation. We absolutely need to get some youth into this lineup. It would be nice if one of Jensen or Shinkaruk was capable of fitting in next year, but I'm doubtful.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by mathonwy »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
2. Find a quality winger that can play in the top-6 without the Sedins. I don't believe Burrows is that guy, so might as well leave him with the Sedins, because he should find chemistry again at some point. Kassian is developing the chops to play in the top-6, and Kesler. We need our Hossa/Sharp, however. Evander Kane? Chris Stewart? Ryan O'Reilly? All guys that have been in the trade mill, but will cost the Canucks.
YES. Exactly this. This is what I was arguing so hard for when I mentioned trading for Alfredsson. Unfortunately everyone got hung up on the mentoring thing. :( We absolutely need our Hossa. When Kane and Toews are slumping, Hossa picks up the slack. And vice versa. Right now, we have a whole bunch of plumbers and a couple very skilled guys and those very skilled guys are getting injured because they're playing too much

3. Puckmoving d-man. This may be tough, given our NTC's on the back-end. But if we can convince one of them to move, a guy like Keith Yandle (who's always mentioned in rumours) would be great. They might want an Edler in return? But we should have the assets to make that deal happen. A true puck-mover that can skate would vastly improve our options on both the PP and zone entry.

YES. The Kings have Doughty. The Sharks have Boyle. Anaheim have an amazing puck moving defensemen in Cam Fowler. Chicago has Keith. Who's ours? Bieksa? Hamhuis? Garrison? Tanev? No, no, no, and no. We don't have a guy that'll rush it into the zone. The thing we do is pass it a lot.

Unfortunately, I don't think Phoenix would give Yandle up for Edler. They have an Edler- in Derek Morris so they'd probably want Tanev. As well, Yandle is light. Hockey News puts him at 6'1, 190. That's very light for someone that is 6'1. Our defense as they are right now are a bunch of poofs and not all that scary. I'm not sure if I want them to become poofier. I hear Jovo is having a career revival of sorts. GET ME JOVOCOP!

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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by Meds »

mathonwy wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
2. Find a quality winger that can play in the top-6 without the Sedins. I don't believe Burrows is that guy, so might as well leave him with the Sedins, because he should find chemistry again at some point. Kassian is developing the chops to play in the top-6, and Kesler. We need our Hossa/Sharp, however. Evander Kane? Chris Stewart? Ryan O'Reilly? All guys that have been in the trade mill, but will cost the Canucks.
YES. Exactly this. This is what I was arguing so hard for when I mentioned trading for Alfredsson. Unfortunately everyone got hung up on the mentoring thing. :( We absolutely need our Hossa. When Kane and Toews are slumping, Hossa picks up the slack. And vice versa. Right now, we have a whole bunch of plumbers and a couple very skilled guys and those very skilled guys are getting injured because they're playing too much
No. You argued so hard for making a trade for a 41 year old winger to come in and mentor the a couple of 34 year old declining stars who would actually have more winning experience than said mentor. Hossa is 35 years old, a stronger skater, a better shooter, and probably an all-round better two-way player than Alfredsson, so don't even try to make that comparison.
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mathonwy
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by mathonwy »

Mëds wrote:
mathonwy wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
2. Find a quality winger that can play in the top-6 without the Sedins. I don't believe Burrows is that guy, so might as well leave him with the Sedins, because he should find chemistry again at some point. Kassian is developing the chops to play in the top-6, and Kesler. We need our Hossa/Sharp, however. Evander Kane? Chris Stewart? Ryan O'Reilly? All guys that have been in the trade mill, but will cost the Canucks.
YES. Exactly this. This is what I was arguing so hard for when I mentioned trading for Alfredsson. Unfortunately everyone got hung up on the mentoring thing. :( We absolutely need our Hossa. When Kane and Toews are slumping, Hossa picks up the slack. And vice versa. Right now, we have a whole bunch of plumbers and a couple very skilled guys and those very skilled guys are getting injured because they're playing too much
No. You argued so hard for making a trade for a 41 year old winger to come in and mentor the a couple of 34 year old declining stars who would actually have more winning experience than said mentor. Hossa is 35 years old, a stronger skater, a better shooter, and probably an all-round better two-way player than Alfredsson, so don't even try to make that comparison.
Mëds, give it a rest buddy. The mentorship angle is so 1 week ago.

Hossa is THE winger that I had in mind when I wrote that post. My point is still the same. I felt like we needed an elite winger to solidify that 3rd spot on our first line. I was looking around the league and I saw Alfy as being a good interim fit that wouldn't cost us an arm and a leg.

Regarding the whole mentorship that you're so hung up on. Maybe its the wrong word. The point I was trying to get across (which I obviously failed on) was our power play (on our top line) desperately needs some new ideas and new energy. The Sedins have stayed STATIC in the last 5 years. They haven't changed with the times and are trying the same OLD ideas over and over again with less and less success. It's NOT working and it will continue to NOT work unless they reinvent themselves. And that's where I saw Alfy with all of his experience could potentially help versus a young buck who would just follow the leader and IMO, following the leader will take us absolutely nowhere.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by Listercat »

PP strategy and player alignment is the job of the coaching staff not the players. If the strategy is not working or the execution of same then the coaches need to either change the parts or the strategy itself.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by Meds »

mathonwy wrote: Mëds, give it a rest buddy. The mentorship angle is so 1 week ago.

Hossa is THE winger that I had in mind when I wrote that post. My point is still the same. I felt like we needed an elite winger to solidify that 3rd spot on our first line. I was looking around the league and I saw Alfy as being a good interim fit that wouldn't cost us an arm and a leg.

Regarding the whole mentorship that you're so hung up on. Maybe its the wrong word. The point I was trying to get across (which I obviously failed on) was our power play (on our top line) desperately needs some new ideas and new energy. The Sedins have stayed STATIC in the last 5 years. They haven't changed with the times and are trying the same OLD ideas over and over again with less and less success. It's NOT working and it will continue to NOT work unless they reinvent themselves. And that's where I saw Alfy with all of his experience could potentially help versus a young buck who would just follow the leader and IMO, following the leader will take us absolutely nowhere.
If Hossa was THE winger you had in mind, then why did you suggest someone who is 6 years his senior and a completely different type of player. Alfredsson is not a high flying winger. He's old and slow.

At this point I don't think anyone coming in will get the Sedins to reinvent their game. Just not gonna happen. They've been playing the same way for 13 seasons and have run into a brick wall for a while now. If that alone hasn't gotten them to shake their heads and quit with the tired mantra of "we just have to play our game", then no single player is going to get that done by joining them on the wing. Every player that has played with them has only seemed successful by playing the way they play. Every player who has tried to create something that doesn't build off of the their circle jerk cycle is often called out for turnovers and not being in the right place at the right time.

I agree with you, that it is the Sedins who need to change. I just don't think they ever will.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by Lancer »

Listercat wrote:PP strategy and player alignment is the job of the coaching staff not the players. If the strategy is not working or the execution of same then the coaches need to either change the parts or the strategy itself.
They likely would if they ever got around to practicing it. CBA and Olympically compressed schedule puts a hamper on it, but at some point you have to ask the team whether they want to win and score more than once in a blue moon on the PP. The cop-out that you have to let the skilled players on the team exercise their creativity out there is complete nonsense because it just hasn't borne out this season - or last season for that matter.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

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Lancer wrote:
Listercat wrote:PP strategy and player alignment is the job of the coaching staff not the players. If the strategy is not working or the execution of same then the coaches need to either change the parts or the strategy itself.
They likely would if they ever got around to practicing it. CBA and Olympically compressed schedule puts a hamper on it, but at some point you have to ask the team whether they want to win and score more than once in a blue moon on the PP. The cop-out that you have to let the skilled players on the team exercise their creativity out there is complete nonsense because it just hasn't borne out this season - or last season for that matter.
Yeah, I think a number of people, myself included, have to admit that the PP woes and lack of adjustment may not have been Vigneault's fault alone. I just can't see two completely different coaching staffs take the exact same approach to the PP with no real results and just stand pat and wait for it to work.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Mëds wrote: At this point I don't think anyone coming in will get the Sedins to reinvent their game. Just not gonna happen. They've been playing the same way for 13 seasons and have run into a brick wall for a while now. If that alone hasn't gotten them to shake their heads and quit with the tired mantra of "we just have to play our game", then no single player is going to get that done by joining them on the wing. Every player that has played with them has only seemed successful by playing the way they play. Every player who has tried to create something that doesn't build off of the their circle jerk cycle is often called out for turnovers and not being in the right place at the right time.

I agree with you, that it is the Sedins who need to change. I just don't think they ever will.
It's not really a surprise that the Sedins best years were also when they had a supporting cast. It's quite easy to play against a one-line team. The Sedins are not the problem. They will still put up points. Maybe 75-85 instead of 105, but still first-line level. Ultimately this team needs more than 2 guys to count on. Especially considering we can't realistically separate them. They are a 1A scoring threat, and we need to get a 1B scoring threat to play with Kesler and provide a realistic threat on the 2nd PP.
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Re: What's your opinion on what's happening to this Canuck t

Post by Meds »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mëds wrote: At this point I don't think anyone coming in will get the Sedins to reinvent their game. Just not gonna happen. They've been playing the same way for 13 seasons and have run into a brick wall for a while now. If that alone hasn't gotten them to shake their heads and quit with the tired mantra of "we just have to play our game", then no single player is going to get that done by joining them on the wing. Every player that has played with them has only seemed successful by playing the way they play. Every player who has tried to create something that doesn't build off of the their circle jerk cycle is often called out for turnovers and not being in the right place at the right time.

I agree with you, that it is the Sedins who need to change. I just don't think they ever will.
It's not really a surprise that the Sedins best years were also when they had a supporting cast. It's quite easy to play against a one-line team. The Sedins are not the problem. They will still put up points. Maybe 75-85 instead of 105, but still first-line level. Ultimately this team needs more than 2 guys to count on. Especially considering we can't realistically separate them. They are a 1A scoring threat, and we need to get a 1B scoring threat to play with Kesler and provide a realistic threat on the 2nd PP.
Agree to disagree. I don't think they ever regain their form without reinventing their game. They are just too predictable and easy to shutdown now.
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