Our craptacular power play

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Our craptacular power play

Postby mathonwy » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:00 am

I was in middle of replying to HW's post in the Kings thread but thought that this is such a big deal that it needs a thread of its own.

Hockey Widow wrote:Our PP sucks do we need to respond this way. If we had a top five average PP maybe we still turn a blind eye but we can't right now.

It's sucks and it's way worse than last season which was worse than the season before that.

And IMO, there is currently no answer in our current roster of players. The last season that we were half decent was in the 2011/12 season and if you look at the PP goals, it goes
Dank-10
Hank/Kes-8
Salo-7
Coho/Edler-5
Bur/Booth-3
Bieksa-2
Sammy/Hammer/Higgins/Rome/MayRay/Ebbett-1
- for a total of 57 over 84 games. (.6486 ppg/game)

2012/13 season, Salo leaves and the PP goals TANK.
Edler-5
MayRay-4
Dank/Garrison-3
Bieksa/Kesler/Kassian-2
- for a total of 26 over 48 games (.5417 ppg/game)

This season,
Kes-7
Hank-4
Dank-4
Garrison-3
Bieksa/Richardson/Weise/Sestito-1
- for a total 22 over 47 (.4681 ppg/game)

As much as I love Hank, he's not a PP QB. The way Hank scores is by being in constant motion cycling the puck creating confusion and defensive break downs. On a PP, good opponents will not break their 4 man box and when faced with an opponent that will not chase him, Hank is kinda useless.

Dank is pretty much the same. He's got a better shot than Hank but relies heavily on the cycling game.

Garrison is a one trick pony that everyone's figured out and usually, the puck doesn't get to him fast enough for him to beat the goalie with a one timer. And sometimes, it gets to him TOO fast and he whiffs. As well, he may have a hard shot but his accuracy is not very good.

Yannick Weber is a decent enough 3rd pairing defensemen but he's not a PP QB.

Alex Edler has a decent shot but I don't think he's a PP QB either.

So what's more important. 5on5 scoring or 5on4 scoring? Because we are lacking in both. I'm leaning towards the 5on4 scoring because of the punishment aspect.

PS. Someone please remind me because my memory is shit. Was Salo that good of a PP QB in 2011/12?
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby sagebrush » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:28 am

The problem could be a number of things, including:
(1) the lack of a good enough PP QB at the point;
(2) the point shots aren't a big enough threat to draw the defense out;
(3) not having alternatives on either side of the net who will shoot quickly & accurately;
(4) inadequate net presence to occupy the goalie/defense.

With Dan (@ point) & Hank out there, I'd look at #3 first.
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby SKYO » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:06 am

Yup, really need a couple things to get back that swagger and skill set the Canucks had at one time, and that's a true right side quarterback dman, and a sniper to add to the forward arsenal that's really lacking in elite talent after the Sedins and Kesler.
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby herb » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:48 am

Our puck movement is way too slow. It's almost like they don't practice moving the puck quickly and firing it around between the half-wall, point and behind the net. When the PP was decent in early December our puck movement was much more fluid. When it struggles, one guy hangs onto the puck for too long and then is pressured by a defender and forced to make a sloppy pass, which results in a weak shot attempt or a turnover.
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby ClamRussel » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:23 pm

They're using Hank on the wrong side, why they would screw w/ that is beyond me. They definitely need a new special teams coach. Seems to me they're taking the PP about as seriously as they do the shoot out.
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby Meds » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:26 am

mathonwy wrote:I was in middle of replying to HW's post in the Kings thread but thought that this is such a big deal that it needs a thread of its own.

Hockey Widow wrote:Our PP sucks do we need to respond this way. If we had a top five average PP maybe we still turn a blind eye but we can't right now.

It's sucks and it's way worse than last season which was worse than the season before that.

As much as I love Hank, he's not a PP QB. The way Hank scores is by being in constant motion cycling the puck creating confusion and defensive break downs. On a PP, good opponents will not break their 4 man box and when faced with an opponent that will not chase him, Hank is kinda useless.


Well that explains why the PP sucks. Henrik and Daniel just stand still with the puck and pass it up and down the boards. Nobody chases them anymore once IF they manage to setup.

mathonwy wrote:Garrison is a one trick pony that everyone's figured out and usually, the puck doesn't get to him fast enough for him to beat the goalie with a one timer. And sometimes, it gets to him TOO fast and he whiffs. As well, he may have a hard shot but his accuracy is not very good.


The primary problem with the PP running through Garrison is that the other skaters don't move enough and the Sedins don't actually try anything other than hope the opponent bites on a pass to the corner and then they can return it up the boards to get a one-timer setup over to Garrison before the defense recovers.....problem with that is Henrik plays the right side and Garrison is a left shooting point man....tough to make it happen.

Lately I have noticed Kesler skating up and down on the backdoor side of the PP hoping for a cross-ice feed for a shot, but because Henrik just stands still on the half-boards, passing lanes don't open up and Kesler and his quick release are wasted.

mathonwy wrote:Alex Edler has a decent shot but I don't think he's a PP QB either.


You don't think Edler is a PP QB? :lol:

Edler is horrible at the point with the puck. He has a big shot, but he has hands of stone when it comes to receiving a pass and settling the puck.

mathonwy wrote:So what's more important. 5on5 scoring or 5on4 scoring? Because we are lacking in both. I'm leaning towards the 5on4 scoring because of the punishment aspect.

PS. Someone please remind me because my memory is shit. Was Salo that good of a PP QB in 2011/12?



Salo wasn't really a PP QB at all. He was just the big shot that they tried to setup the way we try to setup Garrison now. The difference was Salo was a right-handed shot and so running the PP through Hank on the half-boards was a viable option because his making the pass into Sami's wheelhouse was actually doable. I loved the play where Salo dropped back to center and then came cruising in at about 3/4 speed and Henrik hit him with a pass just below the blueline that Sami stepped into at speed. When that was on net the goaltender was either in a lot of pain or watching the replay at 1/100th speed after the game and still straining to see the black blur that was the puck. Ehrhoff was the PP QB, he could pass, shoot, and even create some chances just with his skating and stick-handling by beating a defending forward and forcing the PK to shift in response.
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby mathonwy » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:22 pm

Nice points Meds. Thanks for them!

And I agree with Clam. They ARE using Hank on the wrong side but our lack of a right handed shot is screwing everything up.

I honestly can not see our PP getting any better with our current complement of players. You can try to blame coaching but we were shitty on the PP last year under AV and even shittier this year under Torts. And it is of my opinion that, as skilled as the Sedins are, they will not magically figure it out.

Does Mike Gillis have what it takes to fix this broken team?

Based on how he handled the Hodgson and Schneider deals, I'm leaning towards no.
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby Topper » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:38 pm

Has Hank completed a pass since breaking his finger?
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby Listercat » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:48 pm

Meds, the non movement in the PP is an issue I have raised for the past 3 seasons. It's not something that has just happened. Erhrhoff was not the PP QB either but what he did do well was create time and space either for his shot or for someone else.

The whole idea of a PP is to create confusion for the defenders and time & space with the extra body in order to get someone in the open for a good scoring chance. The Sedin PP unit sets up with Hank on the wall and Daniel behind the net or in the corner. Everyone knows Hank won't shoot so defenders don't pressure him, effectively negating the extra man. Daniel positioned where he is, isn't a threat to score. Defenses have collapsed more to the net and look to block shots rather than leave a seam in the slot. Some teams will force defenders to spread by moving through the slot area.(see the Ducks from the other night) The Canucks use a passive system trying to set up a single shot rather than breaking the box by creating 2 on 1's. The D men other than Bieksa or Hammer rarely move from a point position to overload the D and lately with Daniel on the point Kesler has been playing out high as well. If the box is not challenged it doesn't have to move out of its preferred position and the goaltender doesn't have to worry about heavy traffic in front.

If you look at the best PP's over the years they all had two critical elements: movement and being in a position to shoot if the puck came to you. Mike Bossy was probably the best ever at being in a position to shoot at all times. In today's game Corey Perry & Malkin are the best.

Until the Canucks get player and puck movement as a part of the PP they will not be successful
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby Meds » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:12 am

Listercat wrote:Meds, the non movement in the PP is an issue I have raised for the past 3 seasons. It's not something that has just happened. Erhrhoff was not the PP QB either but what he did do well was create time and space either for his shot or for someone else.

...

Until the Canucks get player and puck movement as a part of the PP they will not be successful


I have been saying this since the mid point of 2011-2012. That was when the PP started to look less than stellar and began the spiral to what we see today. The Bruins figured it out, then other teams caught on slowly but surely, if they didn't have the size to pound and punish like Boston and LA did, then they just stayed in their box and let the Sedins kill the clock for them.

Things won't change until the personnel do at this point.
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby ClamRussel » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:37 pm

mathonwy wrote:And I agree with Clam. They ARE using Hank on the wrong side but our lack of a right handed shot is screwing everything up.


Well thats why they need to play either Bieksa (has the numbers to warrant it, his shot isn't as hard as they'd like but its good enough) or Weber (isn't as good as Bieksa but has a heavy shot) in that spot. Perhaps they should have brought back Salo after all. Speaking of Webers, when can Shea be traded?

Topper wrote:Has Hank completed a pass since breaking his finger?


No
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby mathonwy » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:00 pm

Last edited by mathonwy on Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby Meds » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:19 am



That's not a bad read, I liked the stat about the Canucks directing some of the most shots on net on the PP but not seeing results.....I was also not surprised to read that. I think we all know why too, because the net presence is always an out-numbered battle in favor of the PK. If you are running your PP through the point shot then you better have at least two bodies at the net. The Canucks generally have one, and a second man coming in late. Having a third man getting in there for rebounds almost never happens until the puck is in the corner. This is because 40% of our PP is manned by a couple of perimeter loving Swedes who aren't afraid of the dirty areas below the hash marks, but just can't seem to figure out what it takes to succeed in a league where box out and collapse to the crease is the going trend for defenders.
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby mathonwy » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:37 am

The article says "It was the lowest moment of a woeful year for the Vancouver Canucks power play".

I think last night (PHX) was the lowest moment of the year for our PP.

Out of the 4 PP's, I counted ONE shot and that was by Ryan Kesler on the 4on3 PP in OT.

We are now 28th in the league at 14%.

Below us are Buffalo and Florida.

One above us though, is LA. :D

Three above us is Calgary. :(
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Re: Our craptacular power play

Postby herb » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:05 am

I think at this point the power play is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The guys are afraid of sucking, so they overthink things and of course end up sucking.

On the PP you can see the guys get the puck, think, think again, and by that time the defender is right in their grill. I just think some quicker decision making and quicker shots would do wonders at this point. Throw out the tape, and just work on quick shots from the point. Not necessarily hard shuts, but bang-bang plays. Get the defenders moving, get some shots on net and try to get some momentum at the very least.

I also have no idea how Sestito has seen first unit PP time yet Kassian struggles to get time on the second unit. Kassian has a good shot and is a good passer. Put him out their if Daniel is afraid to shoot.

It was frustrating to watch Garrison choose to not shoot three or four times on the 4 on 3 in OT. Shoot the puck man!
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