TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby dbr » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:29 am

herb wrote:The NHL obviously has not followed the NFL's model at all.

The NFL has spread around the games to multiple broadcasters, which keeps them all hungry. Fox, CBS, ESPN and NBC are all in on the NFL action.

If this deal significantly weakens TSN, and it looks like CBC is dead in the water, who is going to be left to bid again 12 years from now? Or do none of the owners care because of this big number called $5,000,000,000?

The cost of producing games has gone up at least 10-fold. How can this cost not be passed on to the consumer?


Interesting thought and I certainly don't disagree.

That being said the NHL does not have the market the NFL does.. there was a point in the last decade where nobody was "hungry" for NHL broadcasting rights and they did not spread them around because nobody would pay for them. I don't think they were receiving money at all (?) when they were on the OLN in the states, for example.

Also with regards to TSN a lot can change in twelve years but right now they are owned by a pretty big company themselves and all else remaining the same I'm pretty comfortable they'll still be around at that point (and will probably be able to secure the backing they'd need to buy their way back in).
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby herb » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:16 am

dbr wrote:Interesting thought and I certainly don't disagree.

That being said the NHL does not have the market the NFL does.. there was a point in the last decade where nobody was "hungry" for NHL broadcasting rights and they did not spread them around because nobody would pay for them. I don't think they were receiving money at all (?) when they were on the OLN in the states, for example.

Also with regards to TSN a lot can change in twelve years but right now they are owned by a pretty big company themselves and all else remaining the same I'm pretty comfortable they'll still be around at that point (and will probably be able to secure the backing they'd need to buy their way back in).


The NHL certainly does not have the market the NFL does, but the stark contrast in approaches is interesting. The NHL approach does seem somewhat counter intuitive to me, but I can understand why they took the $5B and ran. I probably would too.

I think TSN will be around in 12 years, absolutely. It's a great channel with lots of content outside of the NHL. I also think there is a chance TSN will get in on some of this sub-licensing Rogers has already agreed to with CBC (once the CBC agreement expires) and we could see NHL hockey on TSN again before too long.

In 12 years, we probably won't even have cable TV like we do today. It'll be interesting to see how the market evolves.

The NHL sure seems to be growing. $200M/year from NBC, and over $400M/year from Rogers. That works out to over $20M/year per team. That's a lot of cash flow the league didn't have even a couple of years ago. 10 and 12 year contracts with NBC and Rogers seem like long terms for a league that has grown from basically no national broadcast revenue to hundreds of millions in only a few years.
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby herb » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:37 am

BurningBeard wrote:That's a good point, but do you honestly think the NFL would consider other offers if Fox (for example) offered them a quarter of a trillion dollars over nine years? That's pretty much equivalent to what just happened with the NHL.


Well, the Canadian deal went from $160M/year to around $433M/year, or nearly three times. It looks like the NFL makes ~$3B/year (increasing to $5B next year), so if one of the broadcasters came in and offered $15B, then yeah, I think it would change things.

They are of course different situations. The US has at least four major broadcasters. Canada has two and a public one that is going broke. Rogers has certainly paid a premium for exclusivity, which I can only assume they believe will be massively profitable for them.
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby Mondi » Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:16 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:Never gonna hear Gary Bettman is a little prick out of those guys again.. :(


I heard TSN is considering changing their name to BIALPN (Bettman Is A Little Prick Network).

So yeah just tune into TSN buddy, they're still gonna have their NHL commentary shows

(some of their best hockey people are signed to long deals).

Eventually though most of the best TSN folk will venture "across the parking lot" (as they like to call it).

Hmmm, haven't given this a lot of thought but if our resident pinkos hate it so much it must be a good thing.

:mrgreen:



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I thought monopoly was a capitalist word ??


Isn't the hallmark of conservative thinking to make up your mind before you even consider the issues. Or perhaps more accurately, "Oh non-conservatives don't like it? It must be good."

Then again, the United States of America has stronger anti-trust laws than Canada (if I recall correctly).
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby dbr » Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:27 pm

Mondi wrote:Isn't the hallmark of conservative thinking to make up your mind before you even consider the issues.


Yes, only conservatives rush to judgement.




:crazy:
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby Mondi » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:01 pm

dbr wrote:
Mondi wrote:Isn't the hallmark of conservative thinking to make up your mind before you even consider the issues.


Yes, only conservatives rush to judgement.




:crazy:


Oh come now, hallmark doesn't imply exclusivity. :D

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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby Strangelove » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:03 pm

dbr wrote:That being said the NHL does not have the market the NFL does.. there was a point in the last decade where nobody was "hungry" for NHL broadcasting rights and they did not spread them around because nobody would pay for them. I don't think they were receiving money at all (?) when they were on the OLN in the states, for example.


The looming lockout of 2004-05 (concerns of fans walking away) affected the that "hunger" Dave.

Then, during the lockout, ESPN was making noise about declining its ($60m) option for 2005-06.

ABC backed off, so the Bettman made an odd deal with NBC during the 04-05 lockout for the 05-06 season:

No fees upfront, but a guaranteed share of revenues for the NHL.

Then, after the lockout, ESPN did indeed decline their $60m option and tried to "jew" Bettman down to $30m

(for that same 05-06 season).

Ummm.... never attempt to jew a jew. :hmmm:

Bettman stood his ground and said the price is $60m minimum.

Keep in mind this was just after the lockout and everyone was concerned about fan reaction.

Comcast stepped forward with an offer to broadcast the NHL on their OLN.

They worked out a 3-yr $207.5m deal (later extended for another 3 years at slightly more).

Which takes us to the 2011 10-yr $2b deal with Comcast/NBC.

Bettman took some flack for going with the much smaller OLN @ $69m per over ESPN @ $30m

(more exposure with ESPN).

But Comcast worked hard to promote the NHL and it GREW, eventually swallowing NBC Universal.

I think the Bettman's "Don't fuck with me" attitude pays off in the long run.

Recently TSN tried an ESPN-haughty thang and the Bettman reminded everyone of said attitude. :mex:

I think the Bettman has set this thing up for a bidding war among the American broadcasters in 2021.
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby Topper » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:22 pm

The original OLN deal had the effect that the NHL was not available to much of the US market. They had to work hard to resolve that.

ESPN is a major shareholder in TSN :wink:
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby dbr » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:37 pm

Thanks for the refresher Doc.
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby Strangelove » Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:18 pm

Topper wrote:ESPN is a major shareholder in TSN :wink:


Yup, Bettman is a little prick. :thumbs:
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby Hockey Widow » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:03 pm

The deal also gives Rogers not only the rights to existing programming but anything that may be developed during the term. So outside of the Olympics any future Canada Cup type tournaments will go to Rogers. There has been talk of re instituting some type of North American tournament along the lines of the Canada cup. Something that will draw in the US viewers.

All future Winter Classics they get as well and they have been lucrative for the NHL. I can see all sorts of things coming with this deal. Like more games in Europe, which Rogers will get too. They will have a say in this future development as a partner with the NHL. Can't wait yo see how the PA quashes things :mrgreen:
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby BurningBeard » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:26 am

I won't be surprised if there's another Canadian team in the league before the deal is over as well.
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:14 am

BurningBeard wrote:I won't be surprised if there's another Canadian team in the league before the deal is over as well.



If it works for Rogers ya I can see that. But will Rogers allow a team in South Western Ontario? Kind of a conflict on that one.

But certainly I can see another eastern based team if Rogers does well on this deal. Not sure if they care about Quebec though.
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby Meds » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:22 am

Hockey Widow wrote:
BurningBeard wrote:I won't be surprised if there's another Canadian team in the league before the deal is over as well.



If it works for Rogers ya I can see that. But will Rogers allow a team in South Western Ontario? Kind of a conflict on that one.

But certainly I can see another eastern based team if Rogers does well on this deal. Not sure if they care about Quebec though.


Well if not Quebec, then where?

I wonder if it would be worth exploring an NHL team in Saskatchewan.....CFL and NHL don't have much overlap, and the Riders are probably one of the strongest fan bases in the CFL. It's just a big flat plateau, so people will drive from everywhere to come to the games, and they love their hockey in Saskatchewan as much as they do in any other province in Canada.

The only drawbacks are the number of games in the NHL schedule versus the CFL, and the fact that Saskatoon would be the preferred city between it and Regina, which means that you need 10% of the total city population to fill the arena. :P

Fuck it.

Wouldn't work. :P
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Re: TSN loses NHL Hockey Rights

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:39 pm

It has to be SW Ontario, if not Quebec. Only place with the population base that could easily fill an arena . But both Buffalo and Toronto would have to agree.

Not really sure where else in Canada a team could succeed if not Quebec City or SW Ontario.
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