And so it begins

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Re: And so it begins

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:15 pm

The thing is the NHL has not banned head shots. A hit to the head on an otherwise clean check is OK. They don't have a zero tolerance policy that is cut and dry in international hockey.

Dank gets a stick to the face knocking out a tooth, or cap, and there is only a 2 minute minor. Stanton takes a knee to the face drawing blood and only a 2 minute minors. Weber slams Datsionone face first into the boards and no penalty. I am sure there are hundreds of examples every season. Let's not forget Chara's head slam into the stantion.

The NHL has only reacted after the fact and then minimally. The PA doesn't have a say in rule changes or how penalties are called. Yes equipment changes the PA is slow as molasses, like the hard elbow pads and shoulder pads Cherry has been harping on for years.

Pro sports is full of machismo attitude. Player want to play and want to help their teammates. Teams want players on the ice. The NHL does have concussion protocols now but they are abused by teams. There needs to be mandatory independent assessments done that takes the decision out of team hands and players hands.

What MG did to or for Manny took balls. But it is rare. And yet the player is still playing because another team wants to ignore the risks. If Manny gets blind sided and suffers a concussion he accepted the risk but what about Carolina? They ignored the risk.

It's a fine line between a players right to assume the risk and teams choosing to ignore the risk. Both are accountable.

As a lot of fans I love the fighting but is it worth the risk? The only way to eliminate it is to crack down more on head shots and questionable hits. Bert gets the longest suspension in NHL history and Keith gets 5 games! Kassian gets 8 games for an accidental hit, this is a huge problem to me.
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Re: And so it begins

Postby herb » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:24 pm

Concussions are really weird injuries. Some guys take massive hits and seemingly walk/skate away fine. Other guys have an awkward fall or bang their head and end up with post concussion symptoms.

Rec hockey players get concussions. Kids get concussions playing high school football. A guy at work got a concussion playing squash a couple of years ago because he slipped and fell into the wall. A friend of mine in high school got a concussion in a legendary shopping card incident.

Where does the suing begin and end is my question. Are house hockey leagues liable? What about junior? Do NHL players not sign a waiver when the play? I know I do and I only play beer league hockey and of course I understand there are risks even in beer league.

Most NHL players could have a comfortable life away from hockey after a couple years in the league, yet they all stay or try to stay in the league for many years. If it's so risky and they're compensated so poorly, why stay?
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Re: And so it begins

Postby Arachnid » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:44 pm

herb wrote:Concussions are really weird injuries. Some guys take massive hits and seemingly walk/skate away fine. Other guys have an awkward fall or bang their head and end up with post concussion symptoms.

Rec hockey players get concussions. Kids get concussions playing high school football. A guy at work got a concussion playing squash a couple of years ago because he slipped and fell into the wall. A friend of mine in high school got a concussion in a legendary shopping card incident.

Where does the suing begin and end is my question. Are house hockey leagues liable? What about junior? Do NHL players not sign a waiver when the play? I know I do and I only play beer league hockey and of course I understand there are risks even in beer league.

Most NHL players could have a comfortable life away from hockey after a couple years in the league, yet they all stay or try to stay in the league for many years. If it's so risky and they're compensated so poorly, why stay?


I know what you speak about...I get concussed reading some poster drivel on here...luckily it is only if others quote that crap as they are on ignore....just say no to bad trade ideas or handsome large black men having sex with ugly south east asians men :crazy:
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Re: And so it begins

Postby Topper » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:38 pm

herb wrote:A friend of mine in high school got a concussion in a legendary shopping card incident.

While riding across the Burrard Street Bridge? I may know him.
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Re: And so it begins

Postby Strangelove » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:24 pm

Meds wrote:Steve Moore is behind this.


Okay I LOLed.

But I'm drunk as a skunk...
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Re: And so it begins

Postby herb » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:49 am

Topper wrote:While riding across the Burrard Street Bridge? I may know him.


lol no, but good to know there's more than one moron who thinks standing up in a moving shopping cart is a good idea.
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Re: And so it begins

Postby Topper » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:47 pm

Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: And so it begins

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:00 pm

Topper wrote:http://www.tsn.ca/talent/westhead-former-players-charge-nhl-concussion-program-is-a-whitewash-1.156495

Doom doom, doom doom, doom doom



And not much has changed. They are still paying lip service to head injuries. If they really want to eliminate head shots they can. The fans may not like the calls for a year or two but we will adjust. A shot to the head of Matthias is a perfect example of where the NHL failed to take action. There are more examples and preferential treatment of some players and some teams.

Or course today all athletes should know the risk but that does nothing for the systemic culture of pro sports, play at all costs, win at all costs. That one is a tough issue to get around. But lets look at Matthias, he wanted to return to the Leafs game, the Canucks said no. He wanted to play in Ottawa, the Canucks said no. He wanted to play in Montreal, the Canucks said no. But he is a third line player, not their star player. Too many times, and in important games, players come back too soon. Part of that has to be on them in todays NHL with the knowledge we now have. But I don't know how you change the culture altogether.

Yes, other leagues have banned head shots but do they handle head injuries any differently in important meaningful games?
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Re: And so it begins

Postby herb » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:24 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:And not much has changed. They are still paying lip service to head injuries. If they really want to eliminate head shots they can. The fans may not like the calls for a year or two but we will adjust. A shot to the head of Matthias is a perfect example of where the NHL failed to take action. There are more examples and preferential treatment of some players and some teams.


Lip service, yeah.

At some point the league will ban headshots. Fighting will be gone one day, too. The road to get there is a long one.

I wonder how many execs and owners think this whole concussion thing is overblown. I thought concussions were a joke or pretty much a non-event until I got one. I mean most times guys get up and they *look* OK. They fuckin' suck. I'd rather break my leg (or my shoulder, of course).

Hockey Widow wrote:Or course today all athletes should know the risk but that does nothing for the systemic culture of pro sports, play at all costs, win at all costs. That one is a tough issue to get around. But lets look at Matthias, he wanted to return to the Leafs game, the Canucks said no. He wanted to play in Ottawa, the Canucks said no. He wanted to play in Montreal, the Canucks said no. But he is a third line player, not their star player. Too many times, and in important games, players come back too soon. Part of that has to be on them in todays NHL with the knowledge we now have. But I don't know how you change the culture altogether.


If it was the playoffs, would the Canucks have let Matthias play?

One thing that sticks out as odd to me is that the standard concussion return to play protocol is do nothing for at least a week after a head injury. Once you have had no symptoms for a week, then you can begin light activity like go for a walk. If you get no symptoms, then the next day you do something a bit more strenuous. If symptoms return, it's back to doing nothing until you have had no symptoms for a week. Obviously pro sport leagues do not follow this protocol. I could see that becoming an issue at some point.
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Re: And so it begins

Postby MichaelScott » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:51 pm

herb wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:And not much has changed. They are still paying lip service to head injuries. If they really want to eliminate head shots they can. The fans may not like the calls for a year or two but we will adjust. A shot to the head of Matthias is a perfect example of where the NHL failed to take action. There are more examples and preferential treatment of some players and some teams.


Lip service, yeah.

At some point the league will ban headshots. Fighting will be gone one day, too. The road to get there is a long one.


As long as the game is played by humans, who respond emotionally to actions against them or their comrades, fighting will always remain a part of this game. Certainly it will be less and less common, as I believe we have already witnessed, but it is also to deeply rooted into the essence of what hockey is (imo).

As for headshot, ya that's a long road, and unless the league wants to enforce stricter policies and penalties for headhunting I don't see that being completely eliminated either, especially considering it is often unintentional (like the hit on Matthias). I can remember when they were making a big deal about it back before the lockout of 2004, main reason for the slow progress? Lack of consistency in dealing with the actions, as has been pointed out and talked about many, many, many........many times. But what can you expect, every job has positions/roles which are filled with Tobeys and other idiots, and that is something that seems very impossible to ever completely eliminate.
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Re: And so it begins

Postby Zedlee » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:57 pm

[At some point the league will ban headshots]

Impossible. No league can ban headshots.

Hockey is a fast game and collisions occur; there will always be accidental contact with the head. The NHL has rules in place which punish "contact with the head" but those rules are applied inconsistently and will never eliminate accidental contact. How does punishing a guy for accidental contact with the head, stop it from happening again?

The Department of Player safety is an absolute joke. The only purpose of the DPS is to give the appearance that the league is doing "something" about head shots because they fear being held liable for head injuries. That they failed to act on Robidas vs Mathias is utterly incomprehensible. While it may have been an accident (being generous here) it was clearly contact to the head and other similar hits have been punished. The NHL is a fucking joke.
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Re: And so it begins

Postby Jovocop » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:05 pm

MichaelScott wrote:As for headshot, ya that's a long road, and unless the league wants to enforce stricter policies and penalties for headhunting I don't see that being completely eliminated either, especially considering it is often unintentional (like the hit on Matthias).


Are you serious?? Unintentional?? What the hell was he trying to do when he raised his elbow?? FYI, Matthias is 6 '4" and Robidas is 5'11".
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Re: And so it begins

Postby MichaelScott » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:06 pm

Zedlee wrote:[At some point the league will ban headshots]

Impossible. No league can ban headshots.

Hockey is a fast game and collisions occur; there will always be accidental contact with the head. The NHL has rules in place which punish "contact with the head" but those rules are applied inconsistently and will never eliminate accidental contact. How does punishing a guy for accidental contact with the head, stop it from happening again?

The Department of Player safety is an absolute joke. The only purpose of the DPS is to give the appearance that the league is doing "something" about head shots because they fear being held liable for head injuries. That they failed to act on Robidas vs Mathias is utterly incomprehensible. While it may have been an accident (being generous here) it was clearly contact to the head and other similar hits have been punished. The NHL is a fucking joke.


Kinda what I just said...so I couldn't agree more lol.
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Re: And so it begins

Postby MichaelScott » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:10 pm

Jovocop wrote:
MichaelScott wrote:As for headshot, ya that's a long road, and unless the league wants to enforce stricter policies and penalties for headhunting I don't see that being completely eliminated either, especially considering it is often unintentional (like the hit on Matthias).


Are you serious?? Unintentional?? What the hell was he trying to do when he raised his elbow?? FYI, Matthias is 6 '4" and Robidas is 5'11".


I've watched it several times and they way I see it is he commits to the it to early and the follow through with the arms (which is involved in almost all hits) comes too soon, resulting in the head as the first point of contact. I don't think Robidas intentionally wanted to deliver a head shot. It's a head shot, so he deserved a suspension, but I don't think there was any intent or malice.
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Re: And so it begins

Postby herb » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:59 pm

Zedlee wrote:
Impossible. No league can ban headshots.


Sure the league could.

They could start by banning elbows and fists to the head. It would be really simple, actually.

The problem is, fans would piss and moan about changing the game too much. Fans absolutely love the physical side of pro hockey.
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