Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby dbr » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:32 pm

Meds wrote:The Jets won't need Horvat coming back from Vancouver in a trade involving Kane. Yes, I'm sure they'd like him just like every GM in the league would, but does he address their needs? Not exclusively.


Well that's a tall order.. the Jets are going to ask for a guy who addresses every one of their needs (which I assume you mean, rather than literally interpreting this to mean they want a guy who addresses only their needs and nobody else's)?

I think you could pretty easily make a case that Horvat fits their various needs best of anyone the Canucks are going to give up, the Sedins and Kesler aren't going anywhere.

Look at the Jets and where they are in the standings, and then look at a couple of telling stats.

*snip*

they are 27th in the league in goals against.

*snip*

Winnipeg's problem is that they can't keep pucks out of their own net. Guys like Tanev and Hansen are the type of defensively responsible players that can turn a differential like that around for a team like Winnipeg. They both address team needs.


Why wouldn't Horvat? The kid is a pretty safe bet to be a two-way force in the NHL in time, and much more importantly is a centre who will have a bigger impact on the game due to his position than a guy like Hansen will. Who do the Jets have down the middle.. Bryan Little? Where's Olli Jokinen next year? Think they ever get Burmistrov back? Who's left?

I am guessing the Jets know that if they trade Kane for a Dion Phaneuf, Joe Thornton type of return (ie. a bunch of decent players nowhere near the calibre of the one they give up) they are going to regret it sooner than later. A young player like Bo Horvat is a piece you can build around, Chris Tanev might be that also but not nearly to the same extent nevermind a player like Hansen.

The Jets also have piles of cap space to play with next year, so taking on a bit of salary isn't going to kill them.


Even when a $70-80m cap ceiling was a pipe dream it was known the Jets would never be a cap ceiling team. Piles of cap space mean sweet fuck all to them.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Vpete » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:55 pm

dbr you are on the money.

Why give up a 30 goal guy for a 20 goal guy and another player who may or may not be what you need? Meds you make a point but you trade a top 6 or potential top 3 guy for depth help?

The best GMs build the top and find the depth and bring it in. If you think the Jets are really that close to being a positive goal differential team why not get a better goalie? Or keep your talent and focus solely on the bottom 6.

You trade Kane you need something huge coming back the other way. It's that simple Horvat plus.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Topper » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:59 pm

Pete - given buffy's indifference to fitness, I can't see him fitting in.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby SKYO » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:26 pm

If the Canucks want any type of future after the Sedins retire, Horvat is staying, our center depth is atrocious enough as it is.

Tanev's value is skyrocketing, a definite top 4 dman, Hansen is the epitome of an elite 3rd liner who can play a top 6 role sporadically.

Gaunce has the size many teams look for in a forward, he's suggested to be at the very minimum a good 3rd line two-way center, but at best could be a future 2nd line center if he can keep putting up points which will mostly be goals as he has an above average shot, ala Ryan Kesler. http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/jrhock ... 43800.html

All Gaunce has to do is work on his skating, which is a fixable skill set.

Anyways those are some good young assets that the Jets can build around for years to come if that fake rumour has any merit.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby ClamRussel » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:37 pm

dbr wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:I could be wrong, but in almost any other sport....a penalty is a penalty.


Yeah nobody complains about officiating in other sports. Like traveling in basketball, am I right guys? :look:


Duh. I'm talking consistency & the shifts in calls not whether players necessarily agree or not. Refs in any sport can rarely win thats true. Also a fact, is NHL reffing is notorious from calling a game differently within the game let alone game to game or as the season progresses....or even within the playoffs. What is a penalty in the 1st isn't in the 3rd or OT.....then a ref calls a penalty in OT and everyone is aghast. How many times have we heard the refs are "putting their whistles away" or "letting them play". Then after allowing everything to go they call a strange one. This system of refs controlling the game perhaps worked more effectively w/ one ref.

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby ClamRussel » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:42 pm

Topper wrote:
dbr wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:I could be wrong, but in almost any other sport....a penalty is a penalty.


Yeah nobody complains about officiating in other sports. Like traveling in basketball, am I right guys? :look:

In the NFL, the Seahawk's defence plays the rules as the Bruins do. Challenging the officials to throw a flag on every play. The 49ers do like wise with Harbaugh continuously working the officials like Quennville does with the Blackhawks.

All four of those teams are having success.


Perhaps there's something to that. Refs will tend to only penalize one team so much before balancing the scales. The Bruins certainly pushed the envelope in '11 where the majority of their calls came late in the game when the result was already decided.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Tciso » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:57 pm

Meds wrote:Kane is not a rental, obviously, and I think he has the potential to the piece that puts our team over that hump and back into the top 5 in the league. So I say, overpay.

I would give up Tanev + Hansen + Booth + Gaunce or Jensen + 1st(2014) + 2nd(2015) + 3rd(tbd) for Kane + Stuart or Pardy + 3rd(2015).

I know it looks like massive over-payment, but it is BOLD, it sends a message that we are through dicking around with little tweaks here and there. It says, we recognize that we don't have the pieces we need to be competitive with the top dogs. So we'll do what it takes. This tells the players still here that Gillis is dead fucking serious about results.


It sends the message that Gillis is channeling Harold Ballard's ghost while eating wild mushrooms. Kane will be a great forward in the next couple of years. But, anything more than Tanev and Hansen and the salary dump of Booth is reDQlous. Our 1st+2nd+3rd will get a $6.7mil RFA next season, and we can keep Tanev and Hansen, and buy out Booth. Kane just ain't that good. Hell, even #99 didn't fetch much more than you are proposing.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby RyanGinger » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:13 am

Instead of Kane, what about Okposo/Pacioretty/JVR?
NYI and MTL don't have the strongest D, so if we were to trade for Okposo or Pacioretty I could see Edler++ going (ntc waived)

Don't know if the Leafs would want another Dman though.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby SKYO » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:32 am

Meds wrote:Gillis on TEAM 1040.....

“We don’t like doing that [getting a rental player], we’ve done it in the past, it hasn’t worked. We like players we think we can sign and keep that are going to be a long-term solution, not a short-term solution. Fitting those guys into your team in a meaningful way with three or four weeks left in the season is really difficult to do.”


Kane is not a rental, obviously, and I think he has the potential to the piece that puts our team over that hump and back into the top 5 in the league. So I say, overpay.

I would give up Tanev + Hansen + Booth + Gaunce or Jensen + 1st(2014) + 2nd(2015) + 3rd(tbd) for Kane + Stuart or Pardy + 3rd(2015).


What sucks is there is some really good rentals that could be a good risk to try to get this season, one whom could possibly re-sign...

Gaborik, Vanek, Stastny, Cammy, Michalek.

But yeah just seems like MG could be in the relentless pursuit of Kane.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Lancer » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:08 am

RyanGinger wrote:Instead of Kane, what about Okposo/Pacioretty/JVR?
NYI and MTL don't have the strongest D, so if we were to trade for Okposo or Pacioretty I could see Edler++ going (ntc waived)

Don't know if the Leafs would want another Dman though.


Given that Okposo appears to have finally turned the corner and is in the middle of a pretty club-friendly contract, I don't know if Garth would want to part with Okposo. He's probably in the same boat as MacT in looking to trade some of the younger talent/prospects for help now, so I can only see guys like Strome or Nelson being talked about and even then the asking price will be steep.

As for Pacioretty, there is no way on God's green earth. Bergevin may be in the market for a Dman, but Pacioretty's the closest they get to a power forward and how many times do they play the likes of Boston?

JVR? Meh...
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby SKYO » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:10 pm

Kassian + Tanev + 2nd for Evander Kane? :look:

That's somewhat comparable to M.Richards for Simmonds+Schenn+2nd.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:40 pm

SKYO wrote:Kassian + Tanev + 2nd for Evander Kane? :look:

That's somewhat comparable to M.Richards for Simmonds+Schenn+2nd.


No way I move the big falla right now, he's starting to come to his own. I would't even do Kassassian for E.Kane 1 for 1.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby rats19 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:44 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
SKYO wrote:Kassian + Tanev + 2nd for Evander Kane? :look:

That's somewhat comparable to M.Richards for Simmonds+Schenn+2nd.


No way I move the big falla right now, he's starting to come to his own. I would't even do Kassassian for E.Kane 1 for 1.

Might have to argue that one todd.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Topper » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:59 pm

What you cooke ing Todd

Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby dbr » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:45 pm

Topper wrote:What you cooke ing Todd



Whatever it is he's putting you to shame! All your fancy equipment and fine ingredients and your south facing kitchen and here's Todd working his magic with little more than a lighter and a spoon..
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