Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Mondi » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:34 am

Betamax,

Do you think the Canucks should sign Richards and trade for Thornton?

Henrik
Thornton
Richards
Horvat

DOPE RIGHT?!
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby herb » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:23 am

Mondi wrote:DOPE RIGHT?!


It would be if this was 2010.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby canuck4life16 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:29 am

Mondi wrote:Betamax,

Do you think the Canucks should sign Richards and trade for Thornton?

Henrik
Thornton
Richards
Horvat

DOPE RIGHT?!


I think that you, uhh, need to start spending a little more time outdoors, MUCHACHO.

Tell me I'm wrong. :mex:
Why are you guys, duh, so mad bro?
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby SKYO » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:59 am

gonna need a 14-15 thread stat!


#CBJ have traded R.J. Umberger and a fourth-round pick in 2015 to #Flyers for Scott Hartnell.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Uncle dans leg » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:28 am

Flyers get bent over and power shagged by the Finnish Fleecer...holy Christ that's a bad trade
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Cornuck » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:37 am

SKYO wrote:gonna need a 14-15 thread stat!


#CBJ have traded R.J. Umberger and a fourth-round pick in 2015 to #Flyers for Scott Hartnell.


Then why didn't you start one? :D
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Betamax » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:22 am

SKYO wrote:gonna need a 14-15 thread stat!


#CBJ have traded R.J. Umberger and a fourth-round pick in 2015 to #Flyers for Scott Hartnell.



So, if Kesler is traded to the flyers, it will be one magical moment to see him re-united with Umberger! 8-)

Uncle dans leg wrote:Flyers get bent over and power shagged by the Finnish Fleecer...holy Christ that's a bad trade


Not really. Umberger has been a consistent 20 goal scorer while not playing with the same calibre of player that Hartnell has and his contract length remaining is two years less than Hartnell. :mex:
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Uncle dans leg » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:32 am

Only in your opinion....

RJ sucks whereas SH is one of the games best power forwards. There's no comparison
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Aaronp18 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:32 am

Opens the door to a Kesler to CBJ deal.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Betamax » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:34 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:Only in your opinion....

RJ sucks whereas SH is one of the games best power forwards. There's no comparison


If RJ played with Claude Giroux, he'd put up better numbers than SH, IMO. :mex:

Aaronp18 wrote:Opens the door to a Kesler to CBJ deal.


Don't think so. RJ wasn't an obstacle that's it's been made out to be, it's the small market and the team CBJ currently is. When he can literally force a trade to a tier one contender, why settle for a team fighting to get into the Playoffs versus a team that knows they are going to get in and be one of the four or five favourite to win it? :mex:
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Lancer » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:47 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:Flyers get bent over and power shagged by the Finnish Fleecer...holy Christ that's a bad trade


Dunno about that. Their numbers last year weren't all that different. Maybe Philly saw the writing on the wall with Hartnell and wanted to get out from under the term of his contract. They get a reasonable facsimile of Hartnell in return for one year and then they have cap space.

Columbus gets a heart-and-soul guy who hits and scores. Yeah I think they won this trade, but not by as much as some may think and it depends on how much mileage Hartnell has left on his body to play his style.

Having said all that, consider me among the surprised when I heard the news. Didn't think Hartnell was available.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby SKYO » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:52 am

Maybe its a precursor to a deal for Philly to trade one of their centers?
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby herb » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:01 am

I could see a scenario where Kesler ends up in Columbus. I don't think it's likely, but it's also not unfathomable. It's close to home for Kesler, and the team is on the rise a bit.

Columbus seems to finally have gotten its act together and will be competitive in the weaker Conference. Columbus could very well compete for first place in the Metro division next season. More exposure in the east means a bigger pay day for Ryan in two years and the East is much less grueling than the West which would save on wear and tear. Kesler would be Columbus' first line center.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Uncle dans leg » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:55 am

Justin Bourne from The Score seems to agree with me:

The Flyers traded Scott Hartnell for R.J. Umberger, immediately got worse
Justin Bourne Jun 23 2014, 12:18PM
The dominoes are all set for what should be one of hockey’s wildest “silly seasons” in some time. Between trades, the draft and free agency, we’ve been promised big things - major centers might swap jerseys, major picks might be moved, and major rumors are being floated about multiple teams.

And so, with the word "silly" involved, it seemed only fitting today that it would be the Philadelphia Flyers who gave the first tile a flick, moving Scott Hartnell to the Columbus Blue Jackets for R.J. Umberger and a fourth in 2015.

The nitty gritty

Both men are 32. They carry almost identical cap hits (Umberger makes 150k less a year at $4.6m per), only Umberger has three more years on his deal, while Hartnell has five. They both play left wing, shoot left, and check in around 6’2” and 210-ish pounds. No salary is being retained by either team in the deal.

The finer grit

Umberger may have scored 18 goals this past season while Hartnell had 20, but they’re nowhere near equal players. Umberger had his highest shooting percentage since 2005-06 to get there, while Hartnell had his second-lowest shooting percentage in the past decade. Hartnell’s tallied about 40 more points over the past three seasons - in fewer games. If you wanted to dig deeper and look at their advanced statistics, it gets more obvious, and isn’t really a debate.

Here are last year’s:


Scott Hartnell is simply the better player.

An overarching thought on the trade

There has to be some reason Philly made this deal. Ron Hextall, the team’s new GM, is not a dumb man.

Now walk it out

The only logical thing I can think of is that the Flyers truly believe that Hartnell and Umberger are at least somewhat comparable (which is curious to begin with). They think both players are badly depreciating, so it’s better to have the guy whose deal is up in three years instead of five. They regret the Hartnell contract a year after signing it, (Hextall’s loud statement about his predecessor’s deal), and figured it’s better to be free in 2017-18 than 2019-20.

If that’s correct - and it’s the only logical thing I can come up with, given “we wanted to get quicker up front” (real quote) is nonsense from Ron Hextall - it’s a really strange move. Hartnell scored 20 this past season, plays the game physically, and is widely beloved by fans and Philly in general.

You can’t convince me that his previous season wouldn’t net him $4.75M over five years on the open market, let alone from a guy who scored 37 the year before. The pay-to-contribution ratio is pretty bang on. He may not be great in 2017, but you would think they’d have been happy to take another two or three good seasons from Hartnell before deciding what to do with him.

From the Columbus standpoint, it’s a great deal. They’re going to slap Hartnell and Nathan Horton in front of the net on the powerplay and make life hell on goalies and D-men alike. They have some good young talent on the team, and they’re complimenting it nicely with some players that are seriously difficult to deal with - Brandon Dubinsky, Nick Foligno and Boone Jenner. Combined with some speed-and-skill guys like Mark Letestu, Cam Atkinson and Ryan Johansen, and you’ve got a darn fine core of forwards.

It’s hard to sit here and do anything other than scratch your head when looking at it from the Flyers perspective. Low round picks aren’t worth much, top-six forwards are. Over the next few years, your team just got appreciably worse.

Until we find out more about this deal (were there issues with Hartnell and management? Did he slap Ron Hextall? Did he want out?), it looks pretty lopsided in the Blue Jackets favor.

And hey, a playoff-quality team improving in June? Their fans have plenty of reason to be excited about next year.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby BladesofSteel » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:52 pm

Hartnell's health and/or potential signs of decline is the only explanation as to why Hex would move Hartnell at this point.

If Scott's effectiveness has deteriorated in recent history to the point where the new GM feels there would be little consequence to dealing him within the division, than its a low-risk move to unload a substantial term.

Having said all of this, with all the discussion going on among the teams, a return of RJ and a late pick is pretty telling of what Hartnell's value is seemingly worth.
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