Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Meds » Sat May 03, 2014 10:47 am

RoyalDude wrote:Reinhart as of now is 6'-1" 190 lbs.

The kid is extreme smart and slick with the puck, sees the ice extremely well, doesn't give up possession easy. Very patient with the puck and can separate himself from opposing players with ease. He isn't Connor McDavid flashy, he's more like Hank Sedin but a better nose for scoring than Hank.

Ekblad is a decent d-man, good in all areas but not great in any one area. Hes not Doughty like star potential.


Shea Weber wasn't considered to be "Doughty-like" star potential either. Drafted 49th overall in 2003, Weber always projected to be a strong defensive defenseman with a big shot, but he was never considered to be a future Norris trophy winner. How much of Shea's success is due to Barry Trotz? I would say that Trotz should get a fair amount of credit.

Maybe a guy like Ekblad fits that bill, with the right coach he becomes the forever missing piece of the Canucks back end.
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3332
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby SKYO » Sat May 03, 2014 9:11 pm

Meds wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Reinhart as of now is 6'-1" 190 lbs.

The kid is extreme smart and slick with the puck, sees the ice extremely well, doesn't give up possession easy. Very patient with the puck and can separate himself from opposing players with ease. He isn't Connor McDavid flashy, he's more like Hank Sedin but a better nose for scoring than Hank.

Ekblad is a decent d-man, good in all areas but not great in any one area. Hes not Doughty like star potential.


Shea Weber wasn't considered to be "Doughty-like" star potential either. Drafted 49th overall in 2003, Weber always projected to be a strong defensive defenseman with a big shot, but he was never considered to be a future Norris trophy winner. How much of Shea's success is due to Barry Trotz? I would say that Trotz should get a fair amount of credit.

Maybe a guy like Ekblad fits that bill, with the right coach he becomes the forever missing piece of the Canucks back end.


Good point Meds, this team has never had a #1 Norris trophy caliber dman in it's entire existence, Ekblad may or may not be that dman, but I guess it's why not take a chance on Ekblad? who could change that.

We could then package up RK or Edler and try to get a younger center who could be a solid center for years to come so we don't feel we missed out on Reinhart.

I'd see if Benning could steal Weber somehow first and foremost though. :thumbs:
User avatar
SKYO
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3453
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Meds » Sun May 04, 2014 9:29 am

SKYO wrote:
Meds wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Reinhart as of now is 6'-1" 190 lbs.

The kid is extreme smart and slick with the puck, sees the ice extremely well, doesn't give up possession easy. Very patient with the puck and can separate himself from opposing players with ease. He isn't Connor McDavid flashy, he's more like Hank Sedin but a better nose for scoring than Hank.

Ekblad is a decent d-man, good in all areas but not great in any one area. Hes not Doughty like star potential.


Shea Weber wasn't considered to be "Doughty-like" star potential either. Drafted 49th overall in 2003, Weber always projected to be a strong defensive defenseman with a big shot, but he was never considered to be a future Norris trophy winner. How much of Shea's success is due to Barry Trotz? I would say that Trotz should get a fair amount of credit.

Maybe a guy like Ekblad fits that bill, with the right coach he becomes the forever missing piece of the Canucks back end.


Good point Meds, this team has never had a #1 Norris trophy caliber dman in it's entire existence, Ekblad may or may not be that dman, but I guess it's why not take a chance on Ekblad? who could change that.

We could then package up RK or Edler and try to get a younger center who could be a solid center for years to come so we don't feel we missed out on Reinhart.

I'd see if Benning could steal Weber somehow first and foremost though. :thumbs:


With management in Nashville apparently going in a different direction now, and Trotz being gone, I think prying Weber out of Nashville is a much more doable thing than it was a month ago.....not necessarily for the Canucks, just in general for every team. From what I've heard about the way Trotz runs his show, I think he was likely a deciding factor in Weber's re-signing with the Predators even after Suter left for Minnesota. The fact that management has never been willing to spend what was needed in order to attract top offensive talent and get the Predators to a point of being competitive with the contending teams might mean that Weber isn't just available for the right price as far as the Preds are concerned, he might actually want out of Nashville altogether at this point. Of course this is just speculation.

The price tag for such a trade would certainly be a top 4 defenceman + a top flight prospect + a high 1st round pick + at least another prospect.

Quite frankly I can see Dale Tallon being the front-runner in such a deal at the draft, that is, if Florida actually had any desirable roster pieces to give back in such a deal. Campbell, Jovo, and Gilbert, being is veterans on the blueline. Campbell is way too expensive for what he brings, Jovo is going to be 38 this year, and Gilbert just isn't what the Predators would be looking at as a veteran return. The rest of their defensemen are young and inexperienced. But they could definitely give up the top pick and some youth.

Edit: I also don't really know if I would want to see the Canucks take on Weber and his contract. The guy is a $7.85M cap hit until he turns 41 in 2026. Wouldn't recapture apply to him the same as with Luongo? Even if Weber played until that age, the Canucks would be carrying nearly $8M in cap on a guy that wouldn't be contributing in nearly the same way. Is Weber a defenseman you bring in at this stage of the game if you think this core is done and we need to rebuild? A rebuild takes at least 4 years. Weber will be 32 going on 33 at that point. So now he's sliding out of his prime years just as the team is getting to the point of being a competitive with the big boys again. Is he another Lidstrom or Chara? Guys who are Norris candidates into their late 30's?
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3332
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun May 04, 2014 9:43 am

Meds wrote:With management in Nashville apparently going in a different direction now, and Trotz being gone, I think prying Weber out of Nashville is a much more doable thing than it was a month ago.....not necessarily for the Canucks, just in general for every team. From what I've heard about the way Trotz runs his show, I think he was likely a deciding factor in Weber's re-signing with the Predators even after Suter left for Minnesota. The fact that management has never been willing to spend what was needed in order to attract top offensive talent and get the Predators to a point of being competitive with the contending teams might mean that Weber isn't just available for the right price as far as the Preds are concerned, he might actually want out of Nashville altogether at this point. Of course this is just speculation.


1. Weber didn't resign in Nashville. He signed a contract with the Flyers, and the Predators matched it.

2. The Canucks don't have the assets to land him, imo. A team like the Oilers, DESPERATE for a top-pairing d-man, would give up a lot more for a guy under contract forever, without a NTC. I think the Oilers would put everyone but RNH and Hall on the table, and the Canucks can't compete with the likes of Eberle, Yakupov, Shutlz or the 3rd overall pick.

Quite frankly I can see Dale Tallon being the front-runner in such a deal at the draft, that is, if Florida actually had any desirable roster pieces to give back in such a deal. Campbell, Jovo, and Gilbert, being is veterans on the blueline. Campbell is way too expensive for what he brings, Jovo is going to be 38 this year, and Gilbert just isn't what the Predators would be looking at as a veteran return. The rest of their defensemen are young and inexperienced. But they could definitely give up the top pick and some youth.


I could see Florida having interest in Edler, not sure if he's enough to get up to the first overall. Edler and #6 for number 1? Would Edler waive to go to Florida? Could we ship him to Detroit for the 15th overall, would 6+15 do the trick?
User avatar
Island Nucklehead
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4190
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:27 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Betamax » Sun May 04, 2014 11:08 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:I could see Florida having interest in Edler, not sure if he's enough to get up to the first overall. Edler and #6 for number 1? Would Edler waive to go to Florida? Could we ship him to Detroit for the 15th overall, would 6+15 do the trick?


That should be a non-starter. Too much to give in a draft where the gap between no. 1 and 6 isn't like it was in the draft where we had a Crosby, Stamkos etc.. available. Wasn't it a year ago that the Hurricanes were contemplating trading their 2013 No. 1 pick (in a deeper draft) for Edler?
Betamax
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: @betamax1080p

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Meds » Sun May 04, 2014 11:30 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Meds wrote:With management in Nashville apparently going in a different direction now, and Trotz being gone, I think prying Weber out of Nashville is a much more doable thing than it was a month ago.....not necessarily for the Canucks, just in general for every team. From what I've heard about the way Trotz runs his show, I think he was likely a deciding factor in Weber's re-signing with the Predators even after Suter left for Minnesota. The fact that management has never been willing to spend what was needed in order to attract top offensive talent and get the Predators to a point of being competitive with the contending teams might mean that Weber isn't just available for the right price as far as the Preds are concerned, he might actually want out of Nashville altogether at this point. Of course this is just speculation.


1. Weber didn't resign in Nashville. He signed a contract with the Flyers, and the Predators matched it.


Right, forgot about that. Did Weber and Nashville have to agree to the same terms as what Philly offered? Or could it have been restructured by Nashville.....either way both Shea and Preds got screwed by the Flyers there when Nashville matched. And they had to match, no question.

2. The Canucks don't have the assets to land him, imo. A team like the Oilers, DESPERATE for a top-pairing d-man, would give up a lot more for a guy under contract forever, without a NTC. I think the Oilers would put everyone but RNH and Hall on the table, and the Canucks can't compete with the likes of Eberle, Yakupov, Shutlz or the 3rd overall pick.


I agree with you there about the Canucks not having the assets to land him. I just can't see it. It would have to involve Edler, who probably wouldn't waive for Nashville, but the extra pieces just aren't in place for the Canucks to make a legitimate offer.

Island Canuck wrote:
Meds wrote:Quite frankly I can see Dale Tallon being the front-runner in such a deal at the draft, that is, if Florida actually had any desirable roster pieces to give back in such a deal. Campbell, Jovo, and Gilbert, being is veterans on the blueline. Campbell is way too expensive for what he brings, Jovo is going to be 38 this year, and Gilbert just isn't what the Predators would be looking at as a veteran return. The rest of their defensemen are young and inexperienced. But they could definitely give up the top pick and some youth.


I could see Florida having interest in Edler, not sure if he's enough to get up to the first overall. Edler and #6 for number 1? Would Edler waive to go to Florida? Could we ship him to Detroit for the 15th overall, would 6+15 do the trick?


I don't think Edler + 6 is realistic. Edler + Hansen/Higgins + 2nd is more reasonable. Prospects are an unproven thing, there have been plenty of top 3 picks that have peaked as 3rd line players or disappeared altogether. The Panthers have said they are loaded with youth, so they're looking for experienced players, loading up an offer with one experienced guy and then draft picks and prospects is probably not meeting their needs. If this was 2015 and McDavid or Eichel were on the table, then the price is higher and worth paying.

Also with the way this team is going right now I think Edler to Detroit for their 15th is also going to include a player coming back, cap space aside, I think Edler is still worth more to the Red Wings than just a 15th overall in a somewhat "meh" draft. In that case I think, depending upon who the player is, you talk to Buffalo and try to move up to 2nd by dangling a player and the 15th.

Failing that you do whatever you can with that 15th and talk to every team in the top 10 and see what it would take to move up. Edmonton and Calgary are non-starters as divisional rivals, but getting a shot at either 2 of these wingers with size and skill, or a combination or Virtanen/Ritchie/Dal Colle and Haydn Fleury would be a pretty nice feather in our team's cap.
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3332
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Meds » Sun May 04, 2014 11:38 am

Betamax wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:I could see Florida having interest in Edler, not sure if he's enough to get up to the first overall. Edler and #6 for number 1? Would Edler waive to go to Florida? Could we ship him to Detroit for the 15th overall, would 6+15 do the trick?


That should be a non-starter. Too much to give in a draft where the gap between no. 1 and 6 isn't like it was in the draft where we had a Crosby, Stamkos etc.. available. Wasn't it a year ago that the Hurricanes were contemplating trading their 2013 No. 1 pick (in a deeper draft) for Edler?


Ummm.....if that's true, Gillis should have been fired for not pulling the trigger then and there before Edler's NTC kicked in. The players who went 5-8 and 10 are all guys who would be worth having in our system at the loss of Edler.

I'm fairly certain that what Edler brought to the team over the last couple of seasons would have been replaceable in free agency at a lesser cap hit.

Just think, had Gillis actually been smart he would still have his job and our 2013 draft would have looked something like.....Monahan, Horvat, Shinkaruk. Shit. :P

Probably could have packaged our 2 of our picks with someone else and made a deal with Colorado or Tampa Bay!
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3332
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun May 04, 2014 12:41 pm

It has been widely speculated that a significant number of teams had real interest in Edler before the July 1st NTC kicked in. It was also widely speculated that MG was over asking, the same way he over asked for Luongo. That was also speculated this past deadline day that he over asked for Edler.

Hard to know what's true in any of this. Is it a GM/media conspiracy or did MG have a hard time understanding the real hockey value of his players?

One thing for sure, when he decided you were gone you were gone, slandered, smeared, injured or jettisoned for next to nothing.
The only HW the Canucks need
User avatar
Hockey Widow
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3926
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Thomas K-thair » Sun May 04, 2014 1:00 pm

The Canucks need to change the core. So if it were up to me Garrison and Kesler would be the guys i would ship out. I still think Edler can be a good player in the right system with a good coach. He may benefit the most by having a coach like Barry Trotz come to the Canucks.
Thomas K-thair
AHL Prospect
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 4:53 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun May 04, 2014 1:08 pm

Betamax wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:I could see Florida having interest in Edler, not sure if he's enough to get up to the first overall. Edler and #6 for number 1? Would Edler waive to go to Florida? Could we ship him to Detroit for the 15th overall, would 6+15 do the trick?


That should be a non-starter. Too much to give in a draft where the gap between no. 1 and 6 isn't like it was in the draft where we had a Crosby, Stamkos etc.. available. Wasn't it a year ago that the Hurricanes were contemplating trading their 2013 No. 1 pick (in a deeper draft) for Edler?


True, this is much closer to the McKinnon-Jones or Yakupov-Murray draft. But there is consensus, and (unfortunately for the Canucks) the 6th pick is in the 2nd tier of prospects. There are the top-3 (Ekblad and the Sams), and some feel Draisaitl could sneak in to the Oilers due to his size. Dal Colle seems locked in at 5 and then the guessing begins.

In order to get to that pick, it would have to be an overpayment, the pieces we have are either tweeners (Higgins/Hansen), prospects we really should be keeping (Horvat, Jensen etc.) or guys that have low values after piss-poor season (Edler, Burrows). There's Kesler, but I don't think any of those teams are on his list, and I'm not even sure Kesler alone is enough to get you a top-3 pick in any NHL draft.
User avatar
Island Nucklehead
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4190
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:27 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby ClamRussel » Sun May 04, 2014 2:15 pm

Usually fans overvalue their team's players but I think Edler is currently being under valued due to an extended rough stretch. There is no *way* he is this bad. Perhaps he needs a change of scenery but he is a rare commodity & would not be easily replaced via free agency. I don't think he'll ever be that no.1 QB but he's certainly capable of returning to a no. 2 or 3 slot. I think other GMs would recognize that & his value should be more than a 1st (depending on how high of course, it would be a case of selling low). The Canucks will recognize that he's still young and has a lot of miles left ...if they keep him, other D need to move out and the right partner needs to be brought in. I think he was lost under Torts & it would be a mistake to just unload him.
"Once a King, always a King"
-Mike Murphy
User avatar
ClamRussel
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3741
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:50 am
Location: New South Wales, Australia

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun May 04, 2014 4:24 pm

The thing with Edler is his back. He will never recover to 100%. He still has periods of time with pain and mobility issues. Reports are that he is not at risk of re-injuring the back but that it is a chronic condition that he can play through/with. I think he has even talked about his back never being 100% again. There is a risk as he gets older and has more playing time under his belt that he has issues. No biggie as most of these guys play through nagging injuries that can plague them their entire careers, except it is the back.

Will this change how he "develops"? Will he show signs of a hurting back in his physical play, speed, turning and pivoting? Add to his that as a guy on the point he must have more blocked shots than the rest of the team combined and I'm not sure how much better he will get. I think he can be better in the plus/minus stat for sure but I also think we are seeing the best of him. I don't predict a strong fall off in his play and do see the possibility of him returning to a decent point production and better plus/minus, I don't see him getting that much better. I don't see him ever being an elite #1 on D but a steady 2-3 guy.

So while I don't under value him I don't over value him either. If he could land us a decent pick and prospect and another3-4 type on D, all while shedding his 5 million cap, I see that as progress. If he would waive for Florida I would love to flip him for their first overall pick plus a prospect. I think he is worth that.

But I would also flip him for E Kane if he would got to Winnipeg. It's just hard to know if he will waive and if so to where. If both Boston and Detroit are still interested I would like to see what they would offer.

But one thing Linden has said was that when he first saw Edler at Edler's first camp he asked "who is that kid? He has great potential." Or words to that effect. If that is any indication than I suspect Linden may place high value upon him, not a bad thing, just an indication that he may not be available.

Garrison, Bieksa and Hamhuis I doubt will waive, ever.
The only HW the Canucks need
User avatar
Hockey Widow
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3926
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby RoyalDude » Sun May 04, 2014 4:44 pm

I'd be happy as a clam Russell if we got rid of Garrison. Not my kind of player, extremely overrated because of being. Local boy and you know we all love our homegrown talent. Bad signing by Gillis. We are stuck with him, that contract is tough to move, no GM in his right mind would want it. I like Edler much more than Garrison but Edler has a market. Hate to see him go but him and Kesler are good way to a promising new future with this team that will get the fans once again excited about them. The fans do not want reclamation projects and journeyman and 3rd and 4th line tweakings. It's bold move time

HW, the E Kane desires? Wake up and smell the coffee, not Lindens kind if guy plus we got no assets without NTCs that can make that happen unless you are talking Bo Horvat and our 6th pick and you definitely do not want to do that for that cancer in the room
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4493
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby RoyalDude » Sun May 04, 2014 4:49 pm

Shea Weber like Jamie Benn have made it clear that they do not want to play for Vancouver. Can't believe we are doing the Weber dreams again. I got a feeling that the Oilers are going to make a serious pitch for Weber or Floridas 1st overall to get Ekblad with Yakupov, Eberle, Gagner, the 3rd overall as parts available
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 4493
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Postby ClamRussel » Sun May 04, 2014 6:20 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Shea Weber like Jamie Benn have made it clear that they do not want to play for Vancouver. Can't believe we are doing the Weber dreams again. I got a feeling that the Oilers are going to make a serious pitch for Weber or Floridas 1st overall to get Ekblad with Yakupov, Eberle, Gagner, the 3rd overall as parts available


Why in the world would Weber chose to go to Edmonton but not Vancouver? When have he and Benn ever made it clear that they didn't want to play for the Canucks? I know Kariya and Sakic did but this is the first I've heard of those two.
"Once a King, always a King"
-Mike Murphy
User avatar
ClamRussel
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3741
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:50 am
Location: New South Wales, Australia

PreviousNext

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests