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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:36 pm
by Betamax
Island Nucklehead wrote:I'm sure the Flyers would go for it, but with Hartnell having a NMC, I don't see it working. He did seem to have fun with the Sedins during their time at the All-Star game ("Suck it Phaneuf!"), and I'd much rather have him than Burrows, but his contract ($4.75M until 2018-19 when he's 37) and NMC probably prevent it.
Don't like the idea of trading for an older player in his 30s for Edler. They have to get younger players/assets back. He was rumored to be going to the Bruins if the Kesler deal went through. Tampa might be another potential landing spot this off-season. Outside of Hedman, Carle (and the injured Salo), they have a no-name defense.

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:01 pm
by Hockey Widow
Betamax wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:I'm sure the Flyers would go for it, but with Hartnell having a NMC, I don't see it working. He did seem to have fun with the Sedins during their time at the All-Star game ("Suck it Phaneuf!"), and I'd much rather have him than Burrows, but his contract ($4.75M until 2018-19 when he's 37) and NMC probably prevent it.
Don't like the idea of trading for an older player in his 30s for Edler. They have to get younger players/assets back. He was rumored to be going to the Bruins if the Kesler deal went through. Tampa might be another potential landing spot this off-season. Outside of Hedman, Carle (and the injured Salo), they have a no-name defense.

To Boston for the triplet!

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:09 pm
by Betamax
Hockey Widow wrote:
Betamax wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:I'm sure the Flyers would go for it, but with Hartnell having a NMC, I don't see it working. He did seem to have fun with the Sedins during their time at the All-Star game ("Suck it Phaneuf!"), and I'd much rather have him than Burrows, but his contract ($4.75M until 2018-19 when he's 37) and NMC probably prevent it.
Don't like the idea of trading for an older player in his 30s for Edler. They have to get younger players/assets back. He was rumored to be going to the Bruins if the Kesler deal went through. Tampa might be another potential landing spot this off-season. Outside of Hedman, Carle (and the injured Salo), they have a no-name defense.

To Boston for the triplet!
Yeah, if Benning is indeed the new GM, you would think that trades between the two franchises would be easier to consummate vs. during the former GMMG era whom had a hard time pulling off any major deal in a timely matter.

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:03 pm
by Hockey Widow
Teams like Boston, Chicago, SJS, LA just seem to have the ability or willingness, or both, to not only recognize their cap situations and aging core, but to make the moves to effect change that keeps them elite. They are willing to let FA walk if need be and make trades. MG just never seemed to be able to pull the trigger.

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:15 am
by Betamax
Hockey Widow wrote:Teams like Boston, Chicago, SJS, LA just seem to have the ability or willingness, or both, to not only recognize their cap situations and aging core, but to make the moves to effect change that keeps them elite. They are willing to let FA walk if need be and make trades. MG just never seemed to be able to pull the trigger.
Yeah, pretty much. Former GMMG downfall was not to make adjustments to ever evolving "landscape" but to put the blame on the onus on the changing "landscape" for why the team stagnated and regressed after being near the top of the mountain.

Trading a future franchise player with Seguin was a bold move. Nothing GMMG did under his tenure came close to that. Probably the "boldest" move in his tenure was that bizarre debacle of the handling the goalie situation and trading The Cory at the last minute after he put his team in a Canucks Corner to have to make a move of one of them that ultimately led him to trade both when all was said and done.

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:11 am
by Jovocop
Betamax wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Teams like Boston, Chicago, SJS, LA just seem to have the ability or willingness, or both, to not only recognize their cap situations and aging core, but to make the moves to effect change that keeps them elite. They are willing to let FA walk if need be and make trades. MG just never seemed to be able to pull the trigger.
Yeah, pretty much. Former GMMG downfall was not to make adjustments to ever evolving "landscape" but to put the blame on the onus on the changing "landscape" for why the team stagnated and regressed after being near the top of the mountain.

Trading a future franchise player with Seguin was a bold move. Nothing GMMG did under his tenure came close to that. Probably the "boldest" move in his tenure was that bizarre debacle of the handling the goalie situation and trading The Cory at the last minute after he put his team in a Canucks Corner to have to make a move of one of them that ultimately led him to trade both when all was said and done.
To be fair, I would say trading Hodgson for Kassian was a pretty bold move at the time. Hodgson was the golden boy and Kassian was pretty much an unknown, except for his physicality.

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:11 pm
by Betamax
Jovocop wrote:
Betamax wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Teams like Boston, Chicago, SJS, LA just seem to have the ability or willingness, or both, to not only recognize their cap situations and aging core, but to make the moves to effect change that keeps them elite. They are willing to let FA walk if need be and make trades. MG just never seemed to be able to pull the trigger.
Yeah, pretty much. Former GMMG downfall was not to make adjustments to ever evolving "landscape" but to put the blame on the onus on the changing "landscape" for why the team stagnated and regressed after being near the top of the mountain.

Trading a future franchise player with Seguin was a bold move. Nothing GMMG did under his tenure came close to that. Probably the "boldest" move in his tenure was that bizarre debacle of the handling the goalie situation and trading The Cory at the last minute after he put his team in a Canucks Corner to have to make a move of one of them that ultimately led him to trade both when all was said and done.
To be fair, I would say trading Hodgson for Kassian was a pretty bold move at the time. Hodgson was the golden boy and Kassian was pretty much an unknown, except for his physicality.
Okay, that's a fair point. He was former GMMG's first ever pick and was the poster child of the three pillars he wanted his draft picks to espouse: "Character, Integrity and Intelligence."

Apparently, there was some sort of malfunction at the junction. IMO, less to do with Cody himself but how the relationship was managed between the player and the team. More specifically, the relationship between Cody and Coach AV.

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:47 pm
by Betamax
Betamax wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:I'm sure the Flyers would go for it, but with Hartnell having a NMC, I don't see it working. He did seem to have fun with the Sedins during their time at the All-Star game ("Suck it Phaneuf!"), and I'd much rather have him than Burrows, but his contract ($4.75M until 2018-19 when he's 37) and NMC probably prevent it.
Don't like the idea of trading for an older player in his 30s for Edler. They have to get younger players/assets back. He was rumored to be going to the Bruins if the Kesler deal went through. Tampa might be another potential landing spot this off-season. Outside of Hedman, Carle (and the injured Salo), they have a no-name defense.
BTW, the obvious linkage here besides the location, and the player personnel itself is his connection with nowTampa Bay Associate Coach Rick Bowness who oversaw the Canucks' then vaunted defense during its back to back Presidents' Trophy and one SCF Finals appearance.

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:11 pm
by Betamax
So if it came down to the Pens' top prospect, Pouliot straight up for Kesler, would ya?

I know there was talk about former GMMG wanted Pouliot plus more in the package, and the Pens refusing to put him in their package especially with concerns over the future of Letang but if the conditions are that Pouliot has a strong rest of the WHL Playoffs, competes in the Memorial Cup ... I could see a scenario where they might even entertain trading him.

It would be somewhat similar to a Dallas trade of their top prospect, Iggy to Calgary for Nieuwendyk just under two decades ago.

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:30 pm
by ClamRussel
Betamax wrote:It would be somewhat similar to a Dallas trade of their top prospect, Iggy to Calgary for Nieuwendyk just under two decades ago.
Yes, except not.

Gillis had it right in expecting a top flight prospect (Pouliot) + younger player (Sutter or Maata) + 1st round pick (Pens pick isn't exactly high). Anything less than that isn't worth it. There's no guarantees w/ prospects or picks, its high risk. The team is better off retaining Kesler and allowing younger centers like Horvat to come in gradually. Perhaps next year's trade deadline is a different story if there's no interest in Kesler resigning here, then perhaps straight up for a single top prospect is possible.

A prospect like Iginla, sure! That, Pouliot is not. I have not been overly impressed in the games I've seen him play. He looks...ok. Not straight-up-for-Kesler worthy.

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:36 pm
by Betamax
ClamRussel wrote:
Betamax wrote:It would be somewhat similar to a Dallas trade of their top prospect, Iggy to Calgary for Nieuwendyk just under two decades ago.
Yes, except not.

Gillis had it right in expecting a top flight prospect (Pouliot) + younger player (Sutter or Maata) + 1st round pick (Pens pick isn't exactly high). Anything less than that isn't worth it. There's no guarantees w/ prospects or picks, its high risk. The team is better off retaining Kesler and allowing younger centers like Horvat to come in gradually. Perhaps next year's trade deadline is a different story if there's no interest in Kesler resigning here, then perhaps straight up for a single top prospect is possible.

A prospect like Iginla, sure! That, Pouliot is not. I have not been overly impressed in the games I've seen him play. He looks...ok. Not straight-up-for-Kesler worthy.
Well, I'm taking a page from your Nylander stats arguments about a players' value being bumped up. He had 70 pts in 58 games as a D and has followed it up with 26 pts in 14 games in the Playoffs.

via: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... pid=124697

But he is a 20 year old, so we are having the Dane Fox type numbers in junior inflation factor caveat.

The one thing the Canucks need to do for a "reset" is to move a key core member(s) either Kesler and/or Edler and not go through the lipstick on a pig thing with just a coaching change.

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:39 pm
by ClamRussel
Betamax wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
Betamax wrote:It would be somewhat similar to a Dallas trade of their top prospect, Iggy to Calgary for Nieuwendyk just under two decades ago.
Yes, except not.

Gillis had it right in expecting a top flight prospect (Pouliot) + younger player (Sutter or Maata) + 1st round pick (Pens pick isn't exactly high). Anything less than that isn't worth it. There's no guarantees w/ prospects or picks, its high risk. The team is better off retaining Kesler and allowing younger centers like Horvat to come in gradually. Perhaps next year's trade deadline is a different story if there's no interest in Kesler resigning here, then perhaps straight up for a single top prospect is possible.

A prospect like Iginla, sure! That, Pouliot is not. I have not been overly impressed in the games I've seen him play. He looks...ok. Not straight-up-for-Kesler worthy.
Well, I'm taking a page from your Nylander stats arguments about a players' value being bumped up. He had 70 pts in 58 games as a D and has followed it up with 26 pts in 14 games in the Playoffs.

via: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... pid=124697

But he is a 20 year old, so we are having the Dane Fox type numbers in junior inflation factor caveat.

The one thing the Canucks need to do for a "reset" is to move a key core member(s) either Kesler and/or Edler and not go through the lipstick on a pig thing with just a coaching change.
Although he turned 20, he wasn't an overager like Fox...but ya still. Decent numbers. All the more reason he should have impressed more at the WJC. He just didn't look poised to me, didn't control the play (for a projected QB type prospect). He might turn out well, but I wouldn't feel good moving Kesler for him. Edler on the other hand...

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:42 pm
by RoyalDude
Kesler for Pouliot, Sutter, 2014 first

Edler to Tampa for 18th pick

2014 - 6th pick
2014 - 18th pick
2014 - Pitts 1st round pick
2014 - 36th pick

Four picks in the top 36 plus Pouliot and Sutter, the rebuild starts out on a real nice foot

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:58 am
by ClamRussel
RoyalDude wrote:Kesler for Pouliot, Sutter, 2014 first

Edler to Tampa for 18th pick in 2015

2014 - 6th pick
2014 - Pitts 1st round pick
2014 - 36th pick

Three picks in the top 36, 2 picks in 2015 plus Pouliot and Sutter, the rebuild starts out on a real nice foot
Fixed

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:11 am
by Betamax
RoyalDude wrote:Kesler for Pouliot, Sutter, 2014 first

Edler to Tampa for 18th pick

2014 - 6th pick
2014 - 18th pick
2014 - Pitts 1st round pick
2014 - 36th pick

Four picks in the top 36 plus Pouliot and Sutter, the rebuild starts out on a real nice foot
If the offers are only for a mid 1st round pick for Edler, I'd rather keep him and hope the new Coaching Staff they hire can extract utility from said player unlike the Three Stooges that were behind the bench this season. 8-)