Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

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The_Pauser
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by The_Pauser »

It's okay. We're stuck with them anyway. Just don't be surprised when the Canucks continue to fade because we gave the Sedins those albatross contracts. Dark days ahead.
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rats19
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by rats19 »

And visions of doom n gloom danced in their heads....
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herb
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by herb »

One funny thing with this messed up logic we’re seeing is that the LA Kings and Boston Bruins do not have a single forward in the top 30 in scoring in the NHL. The Canucks have two. I’m fairly certain most pundits and fans consider the Bruins and Kings to be contenders. The Blues only have one, too.

It's pretty clear to me that the Canucks will need some heavy lifting from some new players in the not so distant future. It's obvious to me as well that management feels the same way with the number of forwards they have drafted in recent years.

This nonsense about the Sedins being second line players, in the here and now, is just stupid though. There is absolutely no evidence to come to that conclusion. Even when they do become second liners, that doesn't mean our days as a good team are done either, as there should be a young player or three ready to contribute full time by then in a top six role.
Last edited by herb on Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mathonwy
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by mathonwy »

The_Pauser wrote: Would a team who's first line is composed of the 88th, 89th and 90th ranked scorers in the league be doing particularly well? They're all first liners based on your criteria.

Based on your criteria we could have a first line of Mats Zuccarrello-Mike Santorelli-Andrew Cogliano and it would be okay.
I'm only using the criteria that you have set forth which is point production.

Why don't you review your own criteria and lets start again.
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mathonwy
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by mathonwy »

rats19 wrote:^^^
He only uses the top 5 elite teams.

15 top line forwards..
Zomg. So the twins aren't in the top 15 scorers in the league. Let's get rid of them!!!

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Arachnid »

The_Pauser wrote:It's okay. We're stuck with them anyway. Just don't be surprised when the Canucks continue to fade because we gave the Sedins those albatross contracts. Dark days ahead.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Poser makers BD look like a cupcake :o
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)
The_Pauser
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by The_Pauser »

mathonwy wrote:
The_Pauser wrote: Would a team who's first line is composed of the 88th, 89th and 90th ranked scorers in the league be doing particularly well? They're all first liners based on your criteria.

Based on your criteria we could have a first line of Mats Zuccarrello-Mike Santorelli-Andrew Cogliano and it would be okay.
I'm only using the criteria that you have set forth which is point production.

Why don't you review your own criteria and lets start again.
This doesn't address what I've stated at all. Yes, I'm using point production. Then you're saying "well the top 90 scorers technically are all first liners." Umm okay. And I go on to show you how poor a first line could be based on what you just said. So if anything all it does is prove that the Canucks could have a poor first line with the Sedins. Is that what we are striving for?
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by dbr »

Let's sum up Pauser's contributions to the board today.
The_Pauser wrote:Their production (56p/82games and 61p/82 games) since they signed those contracts (Nov 1) have been 2nd line rate. Now granted it's a very small sample size of only 32 games, we can see a downward trend in their annual point production since the 2010-11 season. I am extremely confident that before the end of their contract extensions they will be extremely expensive 2nd liners.
"Granted it's a very small sample size" = "This is asinine and I know it"
The_Pauser wrote:Perhaps you missed my post of the Sedins scoring pace since November 1? Of course you did. People want to shut their eyes and close their ears when it comes to Sedin criticism.
Ahh the old fallback of the over the top pessimist: 'I'm just telling the truth, don't blame me because you're such a coward that you can't handle all the truth I'm dealing with right now with my righteous facts of pure insight.' Except the post you're taking someone to task for ignoring is asinine - and you know it.
The_Pauser wrote:The evidence points to the Sedins being 2nd line players before the expiration of their new contracts. Their production over the past 2 1/2 months has been that of a 2nd line pace (I don't care if you want to rank 56 points in 82 games as a first liner. Amongst contending teams that's nowhere near a first liner). If that is the pace they have been playing at for most of this season, where will they be two years from now? They're already on a declining trend since 2010-11.
Translation: if I manipulate the numbers as hard as I can, it allows me to make false statements like "contenders don't have 56 point first liners" (2011-12 Kings had a 54 point first liner, so did the Rangers who finished 1st in the East and made the conference finals) which don't have relevance to any non-asinine (and you I know it) assessment of the Sedins current play.
The_Pauser wrote:Would a team who's first line is composed of the 88th, 89th and 90th ranked scorers in the league be doing particularly well? They're all first liners based on your criteria.

Based on your criteria we could have a first line of Mats Zuccarrello-Mike Santorelli-Andrew Cogliano and it would be okay.
Pointless nitpicking of an imperfect criticism of your own completely asinine argument..

Now I will grant you this, you did raise the possibility that by age 36-37 the Sedins might not be bona fide first liners, that is a possibility that might not have occurred to some Canucks fans yet so uhhhh kudos to you, I guess. :look:
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by dbr »

The_Pauser wrote:This doesn't address what I've stated at all. Yes, I'm using point production. Then you're saying "well the top 90 scorers technically are all first liners." Umm okay. And I go on to show you how poor a first line could be based on what you just said. So if anything all it does is prove that the Canucks could have a poor first line with the Sedins. Is that what we are striving for?
What are YOU striving for, you fucking hack? :lol:

Nobody wants the 88-90th best scorers on our first line but the only reason it's even been brought up is because you're trying to pass of your own delusions as worthwhile insights about these two players.

And the fact is, for what it's worth (sweet fuck all given some people are trying to make chicken salad out of the chicken shit discussion you have to offer) many good teams do have 50-60 point first liners in this day and age.

Furthermore, if the cap ceiling continues to skyrocket like virtually everyone and their dog is forecasting, many good teams are going to have $7m second liners, too.

So if all you have to offer is "these guys aren't going to be as good at the end of their contract as they were at the peak of their careers" then maybe you should just stick to that rather than making a fool of yourself. Yet again.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by rats19 »

^^^whoaho..this^^^
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The_Pauser
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by The_Pauser »

dbr wrote:
The_Pauser wrote:This doesn't address what I've stated at all. Yes, I'm using point production. Then you're saying "well the top 90 scorers technically are all first liners." Umm okay. And I go on to show you how poor a first line could be based on what you just said. So if anything all it does is prove that the Canucks could have a poor first line with the Sedins. Is that what we are striving for?
What are YOU striving for, you fucking hack? :lol:

Nobody wants the 88-90th best scorers on our first line but the only reason it's even been brought up is because you're trying to pass of your own delusions as worthwhile insights about these two players.

And the fact is, for what it's worth (sweet fuck all given some people are trying to make chicken salad out of the chicken shit discussion you have to offer) many good teams do have 50-60 point first liners in this day and age.

Furthermore, if the cap ceiling continues to skyrocket like virtually everyone and their dog is forecasting, many good teams are going to have $7m second liners, too.

So if all you have to offer is "these guys aren't going to be as good at the end of their contract as they were at the peak of their careers" then maybe you should just stick to that rather than making a fool of yourself. Yet again.
I'm talking about the consistency of the Sedins play since they signed those contracts. They have not earned those contracts with their play since they signed the dotted line. I don't see any reason to expect any improvements going forward.

But go ahead and continue to bury your head in the sand. Our first line is going to suck (especially in the playoffs) but hey, it doesn't matter because they're the SEDINZZZZ wahooo
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by dbr »

The_Pauser wrote:I'm talking about the consistency of the Sedins play since they signed those contracts.

They have not earned those contracts with their play since they signed the dotted line.
32 games ago. You're talking about 32 games. Which I mean, it's a basis for criticism (outright rejection of your claims, really) in and of itself but what's extra laughable is you're using the last 32 games to justify an opinion you've held for what - six, seven years now? You've been way off base for pretty much that entire time, and well,
I don't see any reason to expect any improvements going forward.
Me neither.
But go ahead and continue to bury your head in the sand. Our first line is going to suck (especially in the playoffs) but hey, it doesn't matter because they're the SEDINZZZZ wahooo
Pauser it's no secret the Sedins best days are behind them, they're never going to hit 100 points again and they're unlikely to provide the insane value on this next contract that they did on the last one.

Probably their slow decline will continue and before the end of their deal they will be 50-60 point players - first/second line tweeners. Probably also the cap will continue to shoot up and we'll have a handful of forwards at roughly the same price point by then, hopefully with young players like Horvat and Shinkaruk emerging to fill in the gaps. It's not perfect but neither is it the kind of travesty you continue to make it out to be.

However, there is literally no point in trying to have any kind of serious discussion with you about these players because you trot out all of your usual hobby horses - the petulant attitude, the attempts to warp numbers, the outright false claims about what these two players should be able to do - and it's just a complete waste of time.

You probably interpret peoples unwillingness to engage you as some kind of bizarre proof that you're right and they're wrong and everyone but you is deluding themselves. It's a sight to behold, really.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Strangelove »

I like this side of you Dave.
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Try to focus on someday.
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rats19
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by rats19 »

Strangelove wrote:I like this side of you Dave.
Yes, it is good
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by The_Pauser »

Sedins invisible yet again. Oh but wait, my bad, let's cherry pick some October stats and throw that in there. Yup, they put up 2 points in a game against Calgary one time. They're fine.
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