Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby nuckster » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:13 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Again I say people under value what Edler is worth. He is top 4 on on almost all teams in the NHL right now and has 4 more years locked in at 5 per year. There are a handful of teams where he would not be an up grade on the top 4 but they are few.

Not saying he alone would land a Spezza type but the package outlined would be an over payment.

MG has yet to make any type of bold trade and I think he is trigger shy. He hasn't shown the balls to trade away a player like Edler in order to land another top player to plug a hole.


Yep, I reckon that about sums it up for me. Maybe the Ballard trade has left ole Gillis feeling a little 'gun-shy' these days? Still healin the scabs from the burn left from that trade. :look:
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby Hockey Widow » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:38 pm

I really like Spezza but I too would not want to part with all that youth to grab him. A huge over payment and one that would haunt for years. If we are going yo part with a top 4 d'man, and I am not convinced MG would do that, then it had to be for a top six up front with youth on their side. Someone who not only helps us now but will still be around when the twins hang em up.
Hey but Eklund has just reported that we are interested in Dianna so who knows :mrgreen: :mrgreen: We dump Edler and all our prospect for Spezza I dunno what we have left to get Dianna. Maybe Luongo :mrgreen:
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby Meds » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:25 am

Spezza? Really?

The guy seems to miss 20+ games every season playing in the East! He's be healthy for maybe 40 games in the West.
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby ClamRussel » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:41 am

He'd certainly be a fine set-up man for Kesler...and dynamite on the man advantage. Probably too expensive however. Besides, he's a no.1 center, what we need is a no. 1 shooting winger.
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:48 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Hey but Eklund has just reported that we are interested in Dianna so who knows :mrgreen: :mrgreen: We dump Edler and all our prospect for Spezza I dunno what we have left to get Dianna. Maybe Luongo :mrgreen:


Spezza is on the block? Hmmm... he would be a great setup man for Kesler. We'd have 2 pretty good lines if we can get him. I dunno though, don't really want to give up our top prospects for him. I guess it really depends if MG thinks this team is close to being a true Cup contender. If yes, then go for it. If not, probably better stay away from him. We'd have to get rid of a lot of salary to add him to our team too, so it won't be an easy deal to make.

I take it Dianna is Dion Phaneuf? He'd be a nice upgrade over Edler. We could definitely use some more toughness and grit in the backend and he would compliment Bieksa quite nicely back there. I don't really care much about trade speculation. If it actually happens, then it would be worth discussing in more detail.

And yeah, Gillis's MO is to play it safe and stay away from blockbuster trades, so I can't really see a Phaneuf or Spezza coming here via trade. :lol:
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby dbr » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:35 am

ClamRussel wrote:Besides, he's a no.1 center, what we need is a no. 1 shooting winger.


I'd take a no. 1 anything.
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby Lancer » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:34 am

Meds wrote:Spezza? Really?

The guy seems to miss 20+ games every season playing in the East! He's be healthy for maybe 40 games in the West.


Seriously, this guy's back is still a work-in-progress and still prone to getting thrown out over the most innocent-looking bumps. He definitely has elite skills, but his age and health are not what Gillis should be buying if he's spending currency such as good/great picks and prospects combined with a key roster player. I just don't see him adding anything appreciably more than Sundin did when he was here.
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:39 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I take it Dianna is Dion Phaneuf? He'd be a nice upgrade over Edler. We could definitely use some more toughness and grit in the backend and he would compliment Bieksa quite nicely back there. I don't really care much about trade speculation. If it actually happens, then it would be worth discussing in more detail.



Edler @$5M >>>>>>> Phaneuf @$8M.
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby Meds » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:36 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I take it Dianna is Dion Phaneuf? He'd be a nice upgrade over Edler. We could definitely use some more toughness and grit in the backend and he would compliment Bieksa quite nicely back there. I don't really care much about trade speculation. If it actually happens, then it would be worth discussing in more detail.



Edler @$5M >>>>>>> Phaneuf @$8M.


Yeah, Gillis should be run out of town if he pulls the trigger on a deal that brings Phaneuf here if it doesn't also include a first round pick from Toronto and nothing of substance going back to the Leafs.
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:11 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:Edler @$5M >>>>>>> Phaneuf @$8M.


Yep. Completely agree with this.

@ Todd Bersnoozi - give your head a shake dude. Phaneuf, at his salary, is not worth the "upgrade" on Edler!
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:12 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:Edler @$5M >>>>>>> Phaneuf @$8M.


For the record, Phaneuf does not make $8M, his cap hit is actually $6.5M and his 13-14 salary is $5.5M.

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/TOR?year=2014

The thing is, he's about to become a UFA. He may get $8M in the open market, but I doubt it. Norris trophies winners like Karlson and Doughty only got like $7M, I expect Phaneuf to get about $5.5-$6M again.

Anyways, I'd take Phaneuf (+$1.5M) over Edler in the playoffs. I do like Edler, but I'm tired of seeing him constantly crumble under the pressure of the playoffs. Don't get me wrong, Dion makes mistakes too, but at least with him, I know he'll battle through the adversity and pressure.

Please note that I also said this in my post.

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I don't really care much about trade speculation. If it actually happens, then it would be worth discussing in more detail.

And yeah, Gillis's MO is to play it safe and stay away from blockbuster trades, so I can't really see a Phaneuf or Spezza coming here via trade. :lol:


Arguing about Phaneuf vs Edler is a waste of time. The odds of it happening are so low. There's salary to consider, the UFA status of Phaneuf and the bad blood between Dave "Cheeseburgler" Nonis and Mike "Mr. Perspiration" Gillis, so yeah. It's a deal that's almost impossible to make. :lol:
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby dbr » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:01 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:The thing is, he's about to become a UFA. He may get $8M in the open market, but I doubt it. Norris trophies winners like Karlson and Doughty only got like $7M, I expect Phaneuf to get about $5.5-$6M again.


I don't want to comment on the $8m mark specifically, but your expectations for what Phaneuf will get are nuts.

For all his flaws he is probably the most appealing defenseman headed into free agency: young, durable, physical, capable of putting up points and for all of his deserved scorn as a moron out on the ice he does pretty well in pretty tough matchups defensively.

The alternatives are guys like Kimmo Timonen (probably done), Dan Boyle (good but will be 38 when next season starts), Andrei Markov and Joni Pitkanen (both incredibly injury prone) and then you're into pretty limited players like Dan Girardi and Kyle Quincey and Willie Mitchell and Brooks Orpik. Almost all of those guys are on the wrong side of 30 by the way.

Meanwhile the cap is going up 10% per team.

Phaneuf's price will go up on account of heading into unrestricted free agency for the first time, up further on account of inflation, and if he wants to go to the highest bidder his price will go up even further on account of him probably being the most marketable defenseman out there - that is if the Leafs don't panic at the prospect of going with Gunnarsson/Franson/Rielly/Gardiner next year and pony up pretty much whatever he wants; they have $30m in cap space and he's by a wide margin their most important free agent.

Put it this way, the last time we were heading towards a $70m cap, Ryan Suter (who is a better player even if Phaneuf is still possibly the best defenseman available) got a deal for nearly twice the term Phaneuf will get at a cap hit of nearly $8m, and that was seen as a hometown discount. He'll average $10m/year over the first seven years of that deal.
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:20 pm

dbr wrote:I don't want to comment on the $8m mark specifically, but your expectations for what Phaneuf will get are nuts.

For all his flaws he is probably the most appealing defenseman headed into free agency: young, durable, physical, capable of putting up points and for all of his deserved scorn as a moron out on the ice he does pretty well in pretty tough matchups defensively.

The alternatives are guys like Kimmo Timonen (probably done), Dan Boyle (good but will be 38 when next season starts), Andrei Markov and Joni Pitkanen (both incredibly injury prone) and then you're into pretty limited players like Dan Girardi and Kyle Quincey and Willie Mitchell and Brooks Orpik. Almost all of those guys are on the wrong side of 30 by the way.

Put it this way, the last time we were heading towards a $70m cap, Ryan Suter (who is a better player even if Phaneuf is still possibly the best defenseman available) got a deal for nearly twice the term Phaneuf will get at a cap hit of nearly $8m, and that was seen as a hometown discount. He'll average $10m/year over the first seven years of that deal.


Good point. You could be right, someone will probably give him that kind of money, we shall see. And like I said, the chances of him coming here are next zero, as salary is a big problem and his pending UFA status.
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:49 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:Edler @$5M >>>>>>> Phaneuf @$8M.


For the record, Phaneuf does not make $8M, his cap hit is actually $6.5M and his 13-14 salary is $5.5M.

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/TOR?year=2014


I'm aware.

I just figured if you wanted Phaneuf you'd want him for more than half a season.
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Re: Trades and rumours 2013-14

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:37 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:I'm aware.

I just figured if you wanted Phaneuf you'd want him for more than half a season.


Aye, gotcha. Fair enuff.
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