Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:43 pm

herb wrote:Oh, and we couldn't even fit Ehrhoff under the salary cap without losing a defenseman who is better defensively or a forward when we are thin on forward depth already. Dumb idea.


Hence - my notion that the Sabres be forced to take on Booth and his contract, if they were to acquire Shinkaruk.....who could be a star in the making.

Losing Booth, from what I see, wouldn't really equate to all that much.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Jovocop » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:26 am

RoyalDude wrote:
herb wrote:

Shinkaruk is the most talented and offensively gifted Canucks prospect I have seen since maybe Bure. The kid has sick skills and may be on the Canucks roster next year. He is about as untouchable as prospects get.


Whoa, whoa, whoa easy there big fella. The kid is light as a feather, he has an up hill battle. I like the kid too, but keep it real


Weight could be added but skills and hockey IQ cannot be taught. Herb is right. Shinkaruk is the most talented and offensively gifted Canucks prospect I have seen since maybe Bure. Can you name another prospect that has as much skills as Shinkaruk, besides Bure and the Sedins?? Unfortunately, I can think of any...
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby BurningBeard » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:40 am

Jovocop wrote:Herb is right. Shinkaruk is the most talented and offensively gifted Canucks prospect I have seen since maybe Bure. Can you name another prospect that has as much skills as Shinkaruk, besides Bure and the Sedins?? Unfortunately, I can think of any...

Mason Raymond?
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby herb » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:45 am

RoyalDude wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa easy there big fella. The kid is light as a feather, he has an up hill battle. I like the kid too, but keep it real


He’s not huge, that’s for sure, but that’s really about the only downside. He’ll end up at least 5’11” and 195 when he fill in, which will be sufficient.

Shinkaruk absolutely has elite puck skills and is an excellent skater. We haven’t had a prospect that oozes that kind of pure talent since Bure, or at least I can't think of any. He has first line, goal scoring, fan favourite sniper written all over him, which is why I would absolutely hate to trade him (and why he won’t be traded) as those types of players are nearly impossible to get.

Kassian and Gaunce have 2nd/3rd liner written all over them. Horvat is a nice looking player who will slot into the top six one day. Shinkaruk has the potential to be something special IMO. I just don't think you trade those kinds of prospects for what would amount to a depth move (albeit a significant one).
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Art Vandelay » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:01 am

BurningBeard wrote:
Jovocop wrote:Herb is right. Shinkaruk is the most talented and offensively gifted Canucks prospect I have seen since maybe Bure. Can you name another prospect that has as much skills as Shinkaruk, besides Bure and the Sedins?? Unfortunately, I can think of any...

Mason Raymond?

Mason Raymond is one of the best players in the League. I wonder if he will play with Crosby or Stamkos in Sochi. I guess they could just load up the one line with their three best forwards and do that
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Zedlee » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:41 pm

Jovocop wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
herb wrote:

Shinkaruk is the most talented and offensively gifted Canucks prospect I have seen since maybe Bure. The kid has sick skills and may be on the Canucks roster next year. He is about as untouchable as prospects get.


Whoa, whoa, whoa easy there big fella. The kid is light as a feather, he has an up hill battle. I like the kid too, but keep it real


Weight could be added but skills and hockey IQ cannot be taught. Herb is right. Shinkaruk is the most talented and offensively gifted Canucks prospect I have seen since maybe Bure. Can you name another prospect that has as much skills as Shinkaruk, besides Bure and the Sedins?? Unfortunately, I can think of any...


Michael Grabner?
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:19 pm

herb wrote: I just don't think you trade those kinds of prospects for what would amount to a depth move (albeit a significant one).



Good point, but you said it best: (albeit a significant one).

The only thing really missing frrom this team right now is a power play. The addition of Erhoff could very well ignite a complete 180 in our PP......to the point where our GF would go up by 1 on average.

Granted - we've been getting decent chances (as another poster pointed out.....I can't find his quote), and our power play will probably end up being "middle of the road" at some point, but why not bring it back to its 2011 level?......or close to it? Erhoff is that guy. Plain and simple.

My line of thinking is that if Erhoff comes back here, this Canucks team is awfully close to their 2012 or even 2011 level.........for atleast a few years.

I love Shinkaruk as well, but solid puck moving defensemen/PP QB's do not grow on trees. They are far more rare than skilled wingers. As far as promising up front talent goes, we've got Horvat.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby BurningBeard » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:54 pm

Zedlee wrote:Michael Grabner?

Now you're making me look stupid. I wish I had picked Michael Grabner, I wasn't thinking.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby SKYO » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:03 pm

BurningBeard wrote:
Zedlee wrote:Michael Grabner?

Now you're making me look stupid. I wish I had picked Michael Grabner, I wasn't thinking.


Well at least we won't have to worry about the Austrian Rocket scoring on us tomorrow, as he's just been suspended for 2 games lol for his hit on Carolina's Nathan Gerbe.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby herb » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:12 pm

Similar players I suppose, and I haven't seen Grabner play in a while, but Shinkaruk has a higher compete level than one-way Grabner ever did. Shinkaruk has also put up nearly double the amount of points Grabner ever did in the WHL, and is on pace for 120 points this season (Grabner scored in the 50's).

I hate getting sucked into these silly "trade proposals", yet here I am. Anyway, to me this is very much a transition year and a guy like Ehrhoff absolutely does not push us over the top against teams like San Jose and Chicago but takes up more precious cap space going forward for a guy who will be our fifth best defenseman five on five. There is little hope that the Sedin led Canucks can beat the best teams in this league four times out of seven without help, and it's time to start thinking ahead to building a new first line. Thankfully Gillis is doing so and not looking to move what little prospect depth we have.

This may very well be the final kick at the can in the CHL for Gaunce, Horvat and Shinkaruk, and so far so good as they are all lighting it up. Losing a high level prospect like Shinkaruk sets the future of this organization back at least another year in trying to build that new first line.

Don't forget, Dank already looks like he may be slowing down, and this season we'll find out what a healthy Ryan Kesler is really (in)capable of. Like I said, transition year.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Jovocop » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:37 pm

Zedlee wrote:
Jovocop wrote:Weight could be added but skills and hockey IQ cannot be taught. Herb is right. Shinkaruk is the most talented and offensively gifted Canucks prospect I have seen since maybe Bure. Can you name another prospect that has as much skills as Shinkaruk, besides Bure and the Sedins?? Unfortunately, I can think of any...


Michael Grabner?


Grabner, at best, is a second liner on a good team. You can argue about Hodgson but he does not have the speed and heart to go with his skills.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Island Nucklehead » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:00 pm

If the Canucks wanted Ehrhoff at that price they would have paid him that price. Trading assets, and extremely valuable ones like Shinkaruk, for him right now would make Gillis look like a fool (much to the glee of the Gillis-fucked-my-wife crowd around these parts).

We acquired him for next to nothing, he put up some great point totals here, and he bolted for the big payday. The Canucks top-4 is locked up until 2015-16, and paying Ehrhoff until he's 39 isn't appealing to me at all. That ship has long sailed.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:35 pm

I agree, as much as A relatively free Ehrhoff brought to this team lets remember he is not a shut down D man and easily got out muscled in the playoffs. He has great O production but has also been slowed by injuries. In a Perfect world he would be a great fit, but not in a cap world.

Scoring from the top six is a major problem and finally have prospects that MAY be able to provide that is a blessing. Let's see what this season brings, get the twins re-signed and move forward. Our back end with Tanev, Stanton and Corrado is much younger than in years past and by all accounts has a bright future. The top 4 are a lock and who knows, 2-3 years from now we may want to exploring moving one of them but not right now. Unless someone offers up a solution to a third line centre and top six scoring for one of Bieksa or Edler I wouldn't move either right now. And either one is worth a young third line centre and a top six.

What would you pay to land either guy on our team? I mean if Ehrhoff is worth Shinky plus?
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Mondi » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:18 am

The team is 10 games into the season, and they have

Daniel 2
Henrik 2
Burrows 0 (I know he's injured)
Kesler 3
Hansen 2
Higgins 2

That's a lot of top six guys on pace for 16 goal seasons.

Booth has 1, Kassian has 1 and god bless Mike Santorelli and Brad Richardson both outscoring all of our $2 million plus forwards.

I would look at trading anyone on this team for offensive help, today. No one is untouchable. Nor should they be.

However, I'd be careful asking GMMG to make any trades as his track record suggests we'd probably do something like Shinkaruk and a first for Tomas Fleischmann!
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Jovocop » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:09 am

Mondi wrote:The team is 10 games into the season, and they have

Daniel 2
Henrik 2
Burrows 0 (I know he's injured)
Kesler 3
Hansen 2
Higgins 2

That's a lot of top six guys on pace for 16 goal seasons.

Booth has 1, Kassian has 1 and god bless Mike Santorelli and Brad Richardson both outscoring all of our $2 million plus forwards.

I would look at trading anyone on this team for offensive help, today. No one is untouchable. Nor should they be.

However, I'd be careful asking GMMG to make any trades as his track record suggests we'd probably do something like Shinkaruk and a first for Tomas Fleischmann!


It's great to see both Santorelli and Richardson playing well above expectation. However, it's only been 10 games in the season. I assume you would not expect both of them outscoring Daniel, Henrik, and Kesler in a 82-games season, would you? Stanton, so far, has 1 goal which is more than Bieksa and Tanev. Are you expecting him to score 1 goal every 10 games from now on and outscoring Bieksa?? Perhaps Stanton can outscore Tanev :mrgreen: .
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