OOTS: 2013-14

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Larry Goodenough
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by Larry Goodenough » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:40 am

tantalum wrote:Soooooo Cody Hodgson got benched tonight. This is a game after the Sabres TV crew ripped into his effort away from the puck. Milbury also seems to have a bee in his bonnet when it comes to Cody and the last two Sabres games on NBC Sports he has had a segment pointing out Hodgson's lack of compete.

Be interesting to see how he responds. He was benched at the end of last year as well and it clearly didn't make much of an impression on him.
Hodgson's puck possession numbers are slightly less than Dale Weise so far this year and rank him 387th out of 395 players. At 5 on 5 and when the score is within 1 goal, he's outscored by 88%.

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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by Vader » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:59 am

tantalum wrote:Must...defend...Gillis'....honor...at...all...costs...or others...will...suffer..Alderaan's...fate

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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by BigTuna » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:16 am

Tiger wrote:Hell I've hated the damm Leaves since 67 when they screwed Vancouver out of getting an NHL franchise..
But Props to Nonis.. he's built a good team..
Why hold a criminal like Ballard against the Leaves? That was 100% his doing. What Ballard did to the franchise was far worse.

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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:41 am

Is It Dave Nonis fine work the reason for turning the Leaves fortunes around or is he benefitting from the fine work of Brian Burke before him?

I will say this, Nonis is a genius at acquiring quality net minders through trades and drafting. Without the Nonis brilliance we would not have Horvat and Luongo and the Leaves no Bernier.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by BigTuna » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:54 am

Burke did do a very good job. Looking at it, he should still be the GM. It's ironic he got so ripped for the Kessel trade, because it's looking so much better now than it did previously. It also overshadowed his other great trades. He got Franson for litterally nothing. JVR is such a better player than Luke Schenn. The Lupul/Gardiner for Beauchemin (who was a free UFA signing) is one of the best trades in years and he got Phaneuf for spare parts. And all the player he acquired were early to mid 20's.

Kadri and Rielly are also looking like great picks.

Burke started with nothing, and built up the core nicely.

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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:42 pm

BigTuna wrote:Burke did do a very good job. Looking at it, he should still be the GM. It's ironic he got so ripped for the Kessel trade, because it's looking so much better now than it did previously. It also overshadowed his other great trades. He got Franson for litterally nothing. JVR is such a better player than Luke Schenn. The Lupul/Gardiner for Beauchemin (who was a free UFA signing) is one of the best trades in years and he got Phaneuf for spare parts. And all the player he acquired were early to mid 20's.

Kadri and Rielly are also looking like great picks.

Burke started with nothing, and built up the core nicely.
Burke is known for laying a solid foundation for other GM's to reap those rewards of his fine workings. Unfortunately for Burkie his personality overshadows his GM'ing brilliance and seemingly never gets to see his project through to their successful ends other than when he won the cup in Anaheim. He made some magical moves - trades/drafts/signings in Anaheim. Lets face it, without the Sedins the Canucks are complete shite, no arguing that. It was nothing short of brilliance what Burke did that day at the Sedin draft which WAS and STILL is the heart of this team. I won't even bring up the Kesler and Bieksa draft picks. He did fuck up some things like the Umberger fiasco. Getting Salo for Schaeffer was nothing short of brilliance. The Bure trade he did well in that Jovo gave us many good years after the trade whereas Bure faded pretty damn quickly after that trade.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:48 pm

Tiger wrote: But Props to Nonis.. he's built a team that made the playoffs in a 48 game season in an extremely weak conference and lost in the first round ..
fyp


I wonder when Nonis will get into the Hall.
TRY TO FOCUS ON HOW MY ASS TASTES IN ONE YEAR

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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by Larry Goodenough » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:00 pm

Good Gawd

Burke/Nonis have built a team that is being outshot 323/419. They take only 43 % of the shots each game. That makes them 29th in the league , just ahead of Buffalo at 42%.

The only difference between Toronto and Buffalo so far is Toronto's been shooting a very lucky 12.4% while Buffalo's been shooting an unlucky 5.8%

That's not a "good foundation" nor a "good job."

Once their shooting and save percentages start normalizing, the Leaves' house of cards will start to fall.

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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by Strangelove » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:20 pm

Larry Goodenough wrote:Good Gawd

Burke/Nonis have built a team that is being outshot 323/419. They take only 43 % of the shots each game. That makes them 29th in the league , just ahead of Buffalo at 42%.

The only difference between Toronto and Buffalo so far is Toronto's been shooting a very lucky 12.4% while Buffalo's been shooting an unlucky 5.8%

That's not a "good foundation" nor a "good job."

Once their shooting and save percentages start normalizing, the Leaves' house of cards will start to fall.
No doubt, these premature-ejaculators are hilarious!

And what about next year when half the team becomes free agents? :mex:
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by Strangelove » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:38 pm

BCExpat wrote:
Strangelove wrote: Generally I dislike California-teams/Florida-teams/Sabres/Flames fans.
Only their fans? Strangelove is a very appropriate name for you :roll:
oopsie, sorry bro, forgot you were here! :mrgreen:

I did say "generally" though right. :wink:
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by tantalum » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:33 am

Vader wrote:
tantalum wrote:Must...defend...Gillis'....honor...at...all...costs...or others...will...suffer..Alderaan's...fate
Whatever you say.

Everyone loves to point out that trade as a failing of Gillis (somehow despite the jury being very much out on it) but somehow it's out of line to point out that it hasn't exactly gone swimmingly for the Sabres and Cody. Fact really is that even with AV gone, and Kesler moving to wing it still isn't that likely that Hodgson has anything but a bit role on this team because of the warts that persist in his game. Torts may be different than AV but lack of effort in any aspect of a game will put you in that doghouse as well. Perhaps one could argue different development but I believe this is now three coaches in his young career that has stapled his ass to the bench at times.

Again see how it turns out and if this latest benchig inspires Hodgson to actually work on his defensive game, but Hodgson right now is not anywhere near being a top 6 contributor on a good team in anything but some points (and even that isn't great right now). No physicality + no defense = no chance at playing meaningful minutes on a good team. Any good team. I can't imagine teams like the SHarks, Bruins, Kings, Hawks etc having any sort of use for a guy like Hodgson, so I fail to see why it's such a huge deal the canucks decided that moving forward trying to build a good team that they also wouldn't have a use for him.

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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by Vader » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:20 am

tantalum wrote:
Vader wrote:
tantalum wrote:Must...defend...Gillis'....honor...at...all...costs...or others...will...suffer..Alderaan's...fate
Whatever you say.

Everyone loves to point out that trade as a failing of Gillis (somehow despite the jury being very much out on it) but somehow it's out of line to point out that it hasn't exactly gone swimmingly for the Sabres and Cody. Fact really is that even with AV gone, and Kesler moving to wing it still isn't that likely that Hodgson has anything but a bit role on this team because of the warts that persist in his game. Torts may be different than AV but lack of effort in any aspect of a game will put you in that doghouse as well. Perhaps one could argue different development but I believe this is now three coaches in his young career that has stapled his ass to the bench at times.

Again see how it turns out and if this latest benchig inspires Hodgson to actually work on his defensive game, but Hodgson right now is not anywhere near being a top 6 contributor on a good team in anything but some points (and even that isn't great right now). No physicality + no defense = no chance at playing meaningful minutes on a good team. Any good team. I can't imagine teams like the SHarks, Bruins, Kings, Hawks etc having any sort of use for a guy like Hodgson, so I fail to see why it's such a huge deal the canucks decided that moving forward trying to build a good team that they also wouldn't have a use for him.

Tant...just having a bit of fun with you - you seem to have the need to defend every decision the GM here makes

The reality is though, Gillis pumped Hodgson as having "character, intelligence and integrity", calls him captain material and then claims he's a problem child! Didn't Gillis interview this kid personally? Doesn't Gillis' new approach he claimed to be bringing to the team when he took the job look a little foolish right now?

And as far as Hodgson's benching, he played a season low 12 minutes in that game. That's slightly less than what Kassian averages right now, in spite of forwards dropping like flies. What does that say about Tortorella's opinion of Kassian?

Lot's of players go through what Hodgson is going through now - or do you forget Daniel Sedin getting scratched by Crawford? Is Hodgson the only young player to struggle defensively at times in the NHL?

I'm not proclaiming Kassian a bust - I think he'll be a useful player (though he's not the second coming of Bertuzzi or any other unfair comparison like that) , but I do find it amusing some feel the need to track Hodgson's every game and report on it so to justify what doesn't look like a great move to this point...

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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by herb » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:37 am

Is there even a point to watching the upcoming Leaves/Canucks game? Obviously we don't stand a chance with the Stanley Cup Champs coming to town...let's just hope we get some points out of the Caps and Wings to dull the pain of Saturday's inevitability.

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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by BCExpat » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:51 am

Strangelove wrote:
BCExpat wrote:
Strangelove wrote: Generally I dislike California-teams/Florida-teams/Sabres/Flames fans.
Only their fans? Strangelove is a very appropriate name for you :roll:
oopsie, sorry bro, forgot you were here! :mrgreen:

I did say "generally" though right. :wink:
Hey no problem - I just thought it was strange that you hated flames fans, but didn't mention the Flames 8-)
Feaster Famine

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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Post by tantalum » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:41 pm

Tant...just having a bit of fun with you - you seem to have the need to defend every decision the GM here makes
No necessarily. I wanted AV gone a year before he was. I don't so much defend at times as provide what I think is a valid thought process behind a move. A move that may or may not work out in the end.
The reality is though, Gillis pumped Hodgson as having "character, intelligence and integrity", calls him captain material and then claims he's a problem child! Didn't Gillis interview this kid personally? Doesn't Gillis' new approach he claimed to be bringing to the team when he took the job look a little foolish right now?
And interview he did and likely interviewed well. Something seems to have happened either with Hodgson or his camp or both. But no question he thus far hasn't shown he is intent on working on the holes in his game.
And as far as Hodgson's benching, he played a season low 12 minutes in that game. That's slightly less than what Kassian averages right now, in spite of forwards dropping like flies. What does that say about Tortorella's opinion of Kassian?

Lot's of players go through what Hodgson is going through now - or do you forget Daniel Sedin getting scratched by Crawford? Is Hodgson the only young player to struggle defensively at times in the NHL?
Indeed. That's why I said it will be interesting to see what happens with Hodgson from this point forward. Does he put forth the effort to learn the other side of the puck or continue to put forth an effort only when the puck is on his stick? Because he saw a reduction of icetime and benching at the end of last year as well and it didn't seem to make much of an impression.

Kassian...it says he is inconsistent. And Torts doesn't reward inconsistency down to a shift by shift level. He's had very good games and received over 16 minutes of ice.

Hodgson is a different case to me...it isn't inconsistency of effort or gettign confused for him. It's an outright lack of effort on the defensive side of the puck. It ought to be a wakeup call that just because you get points (and not that many this year btw) you have to do the other things at least passably well.
I'm not proclaiming Kassian a bust - I think he'll be a useful player (though he's not the second coming of Bertuzzi or any other unfair comparison like that) , but I do find it amusing some feel the need to track Hodgson's every game and report on it so to justify what doesn't look like a great move to this point...
Hey when everytime Kassian has a rough game or the canucks lose a center to injury people don't point to Hodgson I'll stop doing the same. I disagree with your not a great move at this point comment....well at least in the general idea. As I said, I believe the canucks made the decision that Hodgson was not going to help them win and they pulled the plug. I don't disagree with arguing with the return that was had in some cases but the idea/conclusion was pretty sound IMO. And it still is.

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