Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by SKYO » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:48 pm

UWSaint wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:53 pm
Vanek is working out as hoped when he was acquired. He remains a skilled offensive player, an asset on the power play, and has the ability to play wither wing equally well.

The vision (deal him at the deadline if the Canucks are out of it) shouldn't change because he is, well, working out as envisioned.

The speculated return (a 3d) would be lousy and I think it will be better. A 2d, or a B-level prospect added, etc.
Yup gotta think long term rather than short term gain, it's a blessing Vanek is playing really well here, as it increases his value coming from a strictly business decision, its like buying stock low and the stock does well - good enough to sell high, Vanek is a contender's superb target, high point vet, cheap contract, UFA at season's end, he's the perfect rental.

Same with MDZ and Gudbranson, solid depth dmen of varying skill sets for a playoff run.

I can still see a Sedin trade blockbuster last minute.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by UWSaint » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:24 pm

SKYO wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:48 pm
Same with MDZ and Gudbranson, solid depth dmen of varying skill sets for a playoff run.
MDZ and EG are similar, but not quite the same.

EG is close -- as he is a UFA (like Vanek). He is different because he is 26 and could be part of the team post-transition. (Vanek won't be -- well, he could be an effective player for another 3 or 4 years, but that's not a smart risk. Vanek is a 2 year deal at most guy at this stage of his career). There is no reason to believe that EG will not take advantage of the market if he is forced into the market. If the Canucks want to lock him up while they enjoy exclusive negotiating rights (and enjoy providing injury-prone EG a guarantee that begins now instead of July), then they won't have him. They won't get him for a "discount" (they can't offer a good shot at the Cup, there hasn't been time for EG to truly establish a social network in Vancouver, I don't think he's got kids in school or anything like that). Now, not having EG is fine with me. The Canucks need to upgrade on defense; I personally think we are seeing about as good as EG will ever be (I hope to be wrong on that), and all that is a slightly tougher (though less sneaky dirty) right-handed version of Lucas Sbisa. I would trade him. If you need the equivalent player on the FA market, get him on the FA market and pocket the deadline-acquired prospect or pick.

MDZ is under contract for another season. Let's presume another year of upswing before getting to the "competitive" zone. MDZ isn't under contract for that, so not signed up for the plan (though could be), and yes, tradable. But, like EG (and unlike Vanek), EG is young enough to have productive years post-transition. He's been around forever, so it might seem like he's a dinosaur, but he is only 27. For all his warts, and there are many, I think he is probably the 3rd most effective defenseman on the team (behind Tanev (obviously) and Edler (who I actually think has played well during this stretch that the team has been awful). (This observation that MDZ seems like #3 says a ton about how bad this defense really is). I also think that he is going to have some value next year -- there is always value for a 4-6 D at the deadline -- so if the Canucks aren't making it, it is not now or never to turn him into assets if they don't wish to resign him. I'd be okay trading MDZ for the right price now, but I think that it would likely be unwise in a world where the Canucks are and that is one legitimate NHL prospect in the system and he is still a question mark.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by SKYO » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:00 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:19 pm
Two things noted

1. Skyohyo is going after Leaf crap like Dermott.

2. People are massively overrating Liljegren.
"Travis Dermott might be really good"

https://mapleleafsnation.com/2018/01/19 ... ally-good/

Dermott with the skills...dangles better than MDZ and Stecher combined.
Image

Even Duncan Keith had a meh AHL career, Dermott could have pretty decent NHL career.
Guds for Dermott+
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by SKYO » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:22 pm

UWSaint wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:24 pm
SKYO wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:48 pm
Same with MDZ and Gudbranson, solid depth dmen of varying skill sets for a playoff run.
MDZ and EG are similar, but not quite the same.

EG is close -- as he is a UFA (like Vanek). He is different because he is 26 and could be part of the team post-transition.

The Canucks need to upgrade on defense; I personally think we are seeing about as good as EG will ever be (I hope to be wrong on that).

I'd be okay trading MDZ for the right price now, but I think that it would likely be unwise in a world where the Canucks are and that is one legitimate NHL prospect in the system and he is still a question mark.
Gudbranson probably has a solid 5 years left of being a force, he's now a young wily ol' vet, I think he'll create roots here if he is signed for a 5 year contract. But he probably knows it's 50/50 and is mentally ready for anything. I can see Florida paying up for him so he doesn't hit UFA.

The young dman I like from Florida is defensive dman Ian McCoshen, he's the perfect depth dman, he put in his dues in the AHL, 6'3 217lbs and has a good shot.
Owen Tippett would be nice, but you probably are not getting him in a Guds trade unless we throw in Baertschi. The other young fella on the Panthers that is intriguing is Maxim Mamin a 6'2 Russian LW, a checker with some puck skills, has played well in the AHL this season as a rookie whose currently outscoring Jayce Hawryluk whose in his 2nd AHL season.

Nilsson and MDZ to chicago might be had last minute, they need any goalie and already rumoured to be interested in MDZ.

On HF, the Caps are looking to move Burakovsky for a 2nd pairing LD who has some puck skills.
So I suggested MDZ for Burakovsky - getr done jimbo.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Uncle dans leg » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:20 pm

Stetcher sucks...is he worth anything at all? Why not keep the 6'5" guy and flush the turnover smurf?
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Jovocop » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:55 am

SKYO wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:00 pm
RoyalDude wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:19 pm
Two things noted

1. Skyohyo is going after Leaf crap like Dermott.

2. People are massively overrating Liljegren.
"Travis Dermott might be really good"

https://mapleleafsnation.com/2018/01/19 ... ally-good/

Dermott with the skills...dangles better than MDZ and Stecher combined.
Image

Even Duncan Keith had a meh AHL career, Dermott could have pretty decent NHL career.
Guds for Dermott+
It is easy to look good in just 6 games. Just a reminder, Hutton looked like a gem 2 years ago and Stecher looked like the next Rafalski at the beginning of last year. BTW, why would the Canucks want another small and soft defenseman when you already have Stecher and Pouliot?

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by SKYO » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:33 am

Jovocop wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:55 am
SKYO wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:00 pm
RoyalDude wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:19 pm
Two things noted

1. Skyohyo is going after Leaf crap like Dermott.

2. People are massively overrating Liljegren.
"Travis Dermott might be really good"

https://mapleleafsnation.com/2018/01/19 ... ally-good/

Dermott with the skills...dangles better than MDZ and Stecher combined.
Image

Even Duncan Keith had a meh AHL career, Dermott could have pretty decent NHL career.
Guds for Dermott+
It is easy to look good in just 6 games. Just a reminder, Hutton looked like a gem 2 years ago and Stecher looked like the next Rafalski at the beginning of last year. BTW, why would the Canucks want another small and soft defenseman when you already have Stecher and Pouliot?
He's 215 pounds, hardly a small dman. Rob Blake was also 215.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Jovocop » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:07 am

SKYO wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:33 am
He's 215 pounds, hardly a small dman. Rob Blake was also 215.
Dermott is listed at

- 5'11" and 196 lbs (eliteprospects.com)
- 6' and 205 lbs (theahl.com)
- 6' and 208 lbs (hockeydb.com and NHL.com)
- 6' and 215 lbs (Wikipedia.org)

I highly doubt that he is 215. The biggest difference between a player like Blake and Dermott is height, 4".

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by RoyalDude » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:33 pm

I will admit, he's much bigger than the pint sized - Vatanen
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Meds » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:47 pm

UWSaint wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:24 pm
The Canucks need to upgrade on defense; I personally think we are seeing about as good as EG will ever be (I hope to be wrong on that), and all that is a slightly tougher (though less sneaky dirty) right-handed version of Lucas Sbisa. I would trade him. If you need the equivalent player on the FA market, get him on the FA market and pocket the deadline-acquired prospect or pick.

MDZ is under contract for another season. Let's presume another year of upswing before getting to the "competitive" zone. MDZ isn't under contract for that, so not signed up for the plan (though could be), and yes, tradable. But, like EG (and unlike Vanek), EG is young enough to have productive years post-transition. He's been around forever, so it might seem like he's a dinosaur, but he is only 27. For all his warts, and there are many, I think he is probably the 3rd most effective defenseman on the team (behind Tanev (obviously) and Edler (who I actually think has played well during this stretch that the team has been awful). (This observation that MDZ seems like #3 says a ton about how bad this defense really is). I also think that he is going to have some value next year -- there is always value for a 4-6 D at the deadline -- so if the Canucks aren't making it, it is not now or never to turn him into assets if they don't wish to resign him. I'd be okay trading MDZ for the right price now, but I think that it would likely be unwise in a world where the Canucks are and that is one legitimate NHL prospect in the system and he is still a question mark.
Edler has been his usual up and down self. There have been some true stinkers and also some strong outings where he's been clearly the best defenseman we have. With Edler the problem will always be the perception of apathy. Even when he's having a strong game he just looks as if he's merely going through the motions. He doesn't respond well to pressure, and when it comes to sticking up for his teammates in a scrum he's about as apathetic as they come in his weight class. I have said this before, but I do think it is very telling that despite the number of injuries we have seen over the years, Edler has never been given a letter on his jersey, never been considered an alternate/assistant captain. While he is more responsible with the puck, and a better skater than Gudbranson, he is the only other big frame we have on the back end but he possesses none of the snarl or leadership that EG has in spades. All players, but young ones particularly, respond well to guys who will "jump the boards" to defend a teammate and demonstrate the solidarity and compete that is often necessary for a team to have when the chips are down. Edler is the first piece that should be moved off of that blueline because he does nothing for team chemistry and accountability.

Tanev is a lanky and savvy defender, he's not big, but he's smart and effective. The miles are starting to show on him though due to his smaller frame and the amount of physical punishment he absorbs.....he's one of the best and absorbing it efficiently, but the toll is still taken. He is the second piece that should be moved simply because the return would be so good and where we are at as an organization the need to sell high is paramount.

Hutton can stay or go. He's not small, but he's not physical. He makes a ton of mistakes with the puck, and gets caught out of position way too often. He's smooth skating, and he has talent that just isn't being brought together. I don't know that he brings a massive return in trade at this point, but given his age and the flashes we've seen from him he wouldn't go for nothing. If he stays he's at best the #4, and would probably make for a solid bottom pairing puck mover.

Stecher is like a short, right-shooting, version of Hutton, but he has more fire in his belly and seems to be a faster skater. He's a small guy though, and to be a small guy on today's NHL blueline requires tenacity and smarts. Stecher has the former in abundance, the latter is inconsistent. For him to be effective he needs a Methot type of guy on his left side and a coach and team with a gameplan that his style works with. I think we lack the players for that at times, I don't think we lack the coach.

I would keep one of Hutton or Stecher, but they would be my 3rd choice in making a trade.

I haven't watched enough full games this year to have much of an opinion on MDZ, but if UW is saying he's our #3 guy then I trust that assessment and agree that our blueline is indeed lacking both top end skill and effective depth. If we can make moves that let him become the number 4 or 5 guy then I think he's got value to this team.

Gudbranson is exactly what we need on our team in terms of compete and attitude. Unfortunately his advanced stats don't fit, and he is probably going to price himself out of what the Canucks should commit to for what we've seen him bring so far, especially considering how often he has been injured. Big guys who are getting sidelined this often with nagging issues are risky. Ideally he gets kept and paired with an excellent puck mover like Campbell, and more importantly he is signed for $4M and no more than 6 years.....but I doubt he's willing to sign for less than $5M.

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Reefer2 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:05 pm

Well said Meds, well said.

I always thought Edler had no heart, no fire in his belly. Hearing RD say he probably won’t move because he “likes” it here wants me to puke.

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Meds » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:49 am

Reefer2 wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:05 pm
Well said Meds, well said.

I always thought Edler had no heart, no fire in his belly. Hearing RD say he probably won’t move because he “likes” it here wants me to puke.
Yeah. Unfortunately it’s one of the few times where what RD says is fully on the level.

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by RoyalDude » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:17 am

Don't blame Edler, blame the NTC Gillis gave him. Gillis the ex player agent in him, spoiled hiscplayers with amazing contracts and protection. Ya just think he could have modified the NTC in the last two years like our JimBro did with Sutters contract
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:43 pm

Edler is a top 4 d man on every team in the NHL except Nashville and a top 3 on a lot of them. The criticism he gets constantly seeing the ice time he eats and who he plays against is laughable. I’d ditch Gudbranson for whatever the hell you can get and Tanev if it makes sense. Tanev is a good player but he is always nicked up. Sign Edler to a 3 year 12 million dollar extension in the summer to be a staple in the middle pairing.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:47 pm

Also trade Vanek regardless if you plan to re up the twins. One has nothing to do with the other. I’d see if there are any takers for Dowd, Gaunce, Delzaster, Biega, Sutter, Eriksson, Granlund and SamWise.
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